extra ground points?
12-21-2006, 10:08 PM
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extra ground points?
i know there are 3 in the engine bay
1. valve cover
2. transmission
3. battery
now, my question is, will it make a difference if i add more ground points such as the intake manifold, engine block, distributor, etc and using 4gauge wire?
my ground wires are kinda old so im guessing i might get some power if any or smoothen out the car more.
what other ground points would be useful?
1. valve cover
2. transmission
3. battery
now, my question is, will it make a difference if i add more ground points such as the intake manifold, engine block, distributor, etc and using 4gauge wire?
my ground wires are kinda old so im guessing i might get some power if any or smoothen out the car more.
what other ground points would be useful?
12-22-2006, 12:59 AM
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Re: extra ground points? (CXtypeR)
You're going to start a **** storm in here with this post if you're lucky.
This has been covered in the past and it was fun to watch unfold.
There are the hyperground nut swingers who swear up and down that they actually made some power off it.
Then there are the ever so popular bashers that bash anything and everything.
There was a magazine a few years back that did a review of one of the kits that are out there (hyperground I believe) and they actually did see some negligible power gains from it.
The thing they were actually able to notice was that the idle and overall runability of the engine smoothed out.
Do some looking around on here for "ground wire kit" or "hyperground". You should be able to find some decent info.
IMHO, I wouldn't go buy a kit. Do like you were saying, find out what points to ground to and make your own kit. The most important part is the connection you make between the connector and the frame/body of the car and the connection of the wire into the eyelet you're going to use.
Crimp style ones will work, but I'd look into something with a better bond than that. Maybe solder 'em up if you can. Use lead.
This has been covered in the past and it was fun to watch unfold.
There are the hyperground nut swingers who swear up and down that they actually made some power off it.
Then there are the ever so popular bashers that bash anything and everything.
There was a magazine a few years back that did a review of one of the kits that are out there (hyperground I believe) and they actually did see some negligible power gains from it.
The thing they were actually able to notice was that the idle and overall runability of the engine smoothed out.
Do some looking around on here for "ground wire kit" or "hyperground". You should be able to find some decent info.
IMHO, I wouldn't go buy a kit. Do like you were saying, find out what points to ground to and make your own kit. The most important part is the connection you make between the connector and the frame/body of the car and the connection of the wire into the eyelet you're going to use.
Crimp style ones will work, but I'd look into something with a better bond than that. Maybe solder 'em up if you can. Use lead.
12-22-2006, 06:54 AM
#3
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Re: extra ground points? (IslandSi)
I would add one from the back of both corners of the manifold, off the starter, off the alternator bracket, tanny, and valve cover.
12-22-2006, 07:18 AM
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Re: extra ground points? (CXtypeR)
I got the ebay kit, it was cheaper than what I could build myself.
Alt, TB, block, valve cover, tranny, chassis, and chassis. I doubled up on the chassis.
It did help idle with the lights on and it did feel smoother running.
I can post my pic if you would like?
Alt, TB, block, valve cover, tranny, chassis, and chassis. I doubled up on the chassis.
It did help idle with the lights on and it did feel smoother running.
I can post my pic if you would like?
12-22-2006, 07:34 AM
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any why would you like to add extra grounds? how much does a wire cost, probably not more than 10 cents. So why didnt the honda engineers do that?
Im not bashing, i did a write up on a DIY ground system, and then found out it did more harm than good. Your just making a web of interference in your car which in time will mess up your fuel trim. Upgrade your OEM wires, i highly reccomend that.
Im not bashing, i did a write up on a DIY ground system, and then found out it did more harm than good. Your just making a web of interference in your car which in time will mess up your fuel trim. Upgrade your OEM wires, i highly reccomend that.
12-22-2006, 07:41 AM
#7
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Re: (YoungKadafi)
I dont agree with adding 30 grounds. 2-3 extra does help. When you see a car come in that has their oil psi line (stainless) arcing through the firewall due to the buildup of electricity, then you know you need more then the factory three grounds.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YoungKadafi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">. So why didnt the honda engineers do that?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats a pretty ignorant statement. Why didnt Honda Engineers add turbo's, superchargers, better ECU's, bigger exhaust? Better suspensions, Huh? Why?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YoungKadafi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">. So why didnt the honda engineers do that?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats a pretty ignorant statement. Why didnt Honda Engineers add turbo's, superchargers, better ECU's, bigger exhaust? Better suspensions, Huh? Why?
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12-22-2006, 07:44 AM
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Re: extra ground points? (thesmogman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thesmogman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got the ebay kit, it was cheaper than what I could build myself.
Alt, TB, block, valve cover, tranny, chassis, and chassis. I doubled up on the chassis.
It did help idle with the lights on and it did feel smoother running.
I can post my pic if you would like?</TD></TR></TABLE>
More ground points dont do JACK!
Alt, TB, block, valve cover, tranny, chassis, and chassis. I doubled up on the chassis.
It did help idle with the lights on and it did feel smoother running.
I can post my pic if you would like?</TD></TR></TABLE>
More ground points dont do JACK!
12-22-2006, 07:45 AM
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Re: (my_slow_civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by my_slow_civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thats a pretty ignorant statement. Why didnt Honda Engineers add turbo's, superchargers, better ECU's, bigger exhaust? Better suspensions, Huh? Why?</TD></TR></TABLE>
They were keeping costs down and relaibility up.
They were keeping costs down and relaibility up.
12-22-2006, 07:52 AM
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Re: (my_slow_civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by my_slow_civic »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont agree with adding 30 grounds. 2-3 extra does help. When you see a car come in that has their oil psi line (stainless) arcing through the firewall due to the buildup of electricity, then you know you need more then the factory three grounds.
Thats a pretty ignorant statement. Why didnt Honda Engineers add turbo's, superchargers, better ECU's, bigger exhaust? Better suspensions, Huh? Why?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you really wanna get ******* technical then lets do it. Ground wires cost about 4 ******* cents, a turbo costs about 600 bucks, plus an extra X ammount of hours. So What general public would want a reliable commuter car, thats turbo charged? Im sure most people buy hondas for its reliability and emissions. How could you be ever SO stupid to say something like that?
Costs kept them from doing that, Everything was DESIGNED to work togeather. I cant believe you even said that. Almost everybody with a little common sense knows why they dont add 12" subs, neon lights, 16" mugen wheels full exhaust with a HUGE intake.
If you had street smarts, and not this TURBOMAGAZINE, or AZNsensation type bullshit on your mind, then you would know that you promote to the mass public, not to some ******* azn ricers with APC ****.
However Im sure if a few extra grounding points DID infact help, they $0.12 extra would probably be put to good use, but the car does NOT need it. Im 10078% insuring you, they would put the extra wires in, if it helped with performance and emmissions.
And if you put down the rebuttle that "because honda didnt have performance in mind"
Well why does their ECU's adjust for %25 fuel trim?
Thats a pretty ignorant statement. Why didnt Honda Engineers add turbo's, superchargers, better ECU's, bigger exhaust? Better suspensions, Huh? Why?</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you really wanna get ******* technical then lets do it. Ground wires cost about 4 ******* cents, a turbo costs about 600 bucks, plus an extra X ammount of hours. So What general public would want a reliable commuter car, thats turbo charged? Im sure most people buy hondas for its reliability and emissions. How could you be ever SO stupid to say something like that?
Costs kept them from doing that, Everything was DESIGNED to work togeather. I cant believe you even said that. Almost everybody with a little common sense knows why they dont add 12" subs, neon lights, 16" mugen wheels full exhaust with a HUGE intake.
If you had street smarts, and not this TURBOMAGAZINE, or AZNsensation type bullshit on your mind, then you would know that you promote to the mass public, not to some ******* azn ricers with APC ****.
However Im sure if a few extra grounding points DID infact help, they $0.12 extra would probably be put to good use, but the car does NOT need it. Im 10078% insuring you, they would put the extra wires in, if it helped with performance and emmissions.
And if you put down the rebuttle that "because honda didnt have performance in mind"
Well why does their ECU's adjust for %25 fuel trim?
12-22-2006, 08:35 AM
#11
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (YoungKadafi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YoungKadafi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you really wanna get ******* technical then lets do it. Ground wires cost about 4 ******* cents, a turbo costs about 600 bucks, plus an extra X ammount of hours. So What general public would want a reliable commuter car, thats turbo charged? Im sure most people buy hondas for its reliability and emissions. How could you be ever SO stupid to say something like that?
Costs kept them from doing that, Everything was DESIGNED to work togeather. I cant believe you even said that. Almost everybody with a little common sense knows why they dont add 12" subs, neon lights, 16" mugen wheels full exhaust with a HUGE intake.
If you had street smarts, and not this TURBOMAGAZINE, or AZNsensation type bullshit on your mind, then you would know that you promote to the mass public, not to some ******* azn ricers with APC ****.
However Im sure if a few extra grounding points DID infact help, they $0.12 extra would probably be put to good use, but the car does NOT need it. Im 10078% insuring you, they would put the extra wires in, if it helped with performance and emmissions.
And if you put down the rebuttle that "because honda didnt have performance in mind"
Well why does their ECU's adjust for %25 fuel trim?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Adding a few extra grounding points with all the extra aftermarket crap put will help with aleviate the load on the tiny 12g wires. If I'm running a stock motor, in a stock car, with stock electronics, then of course you don't need an extra grounds.
My example of turbos, etc was a smart *** reply, to a smart *** answer. And your comment as me being a ricer, or mag racer, is funny at most. I am not talking about putting on the ground kits that you know so much about. I am talking about adding one or two more grounds. But you're right, i don't have "street smarts". I do not run with the local "street racers" around town, and change my styles, and talk with the passing fads. I grew out of that phase years ago. I am also not the one that takes over six hours to install a pair of badass megan coilovers, and then thinks the drop is too low because of his blown shocks.
I guess Honda engineers are outright perfect. In fact, I guess honda would not skimp on anything, to save a few extra dollars on a car. You're right, I'm wrong. How did I ever dare question you.
Modified by my_slow_civic at 10:53 AM 12/22/2006
Costs kept them from doing that, Everything was DESIGNED to work togeather. I cant believe you even said that. Almost everybody with a little common sense knows why they dont add 12" subs, neon lights, 16" mugen wheels full exhaust with a HUGE intake.
If you had street smarts, and not this TURBOMAGAZINE, or AZNsensation type bullshit on your mind, then you would know that you promote to the mass public, not to some ******* azn ricers with APC ****.
However Im sure if a few extra grounding points DID infact help, they $0.12 extra would probably be put to good use, but the car does NOT need it. Im 10078% insuring you, they would put the extra wires in, if it helped with performance and emmissions.
And if you put down the rebuttle that "because honda didnt have performance in mind"
Well why does their ECU's adjust for %25 fuel trim?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Adding a few extra grounding points with all the extra aftermarket crap put will help with aleviate the load on the tiny 12g wires. If I'm running a stock motor, in a stock car, with stock electronics, then of course you don't need an extra grounds.
My example of turbos, etc was a smart *** reply, to a smart *** answer. And your comment as me being a ricer, or mag racer, is funny at most. I am not talking about putting on the ground kits that you know so much about. I am talking about adding one or two more grounds. But you're right, i don't have "street smarts". I do not run with the local "street racers" around town, and change my styles, and talk with the passing fads. I grew out of that phase years ago. I am also not the one that takes over six hours to install a pair of badass megan coilovers, and then thinks the drop is too low because of his blown shocks.
I guess Honda engineers are outright perfect. In fact, I guess honda would not skimp on anything, to save a few extra dollars on a car. You're right, I'm wrong. How did I ever dare question you.
Modified by my_slow_civic at 10:53 AM 12/22/2006
12-22-2006, 08:43 AM
#12
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Re: (my_slow_civic)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YoungKadafi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
If you really wanna get ******* technical then lets do it. Ground wires cost about 4 ******* cents, a turbo costs about 600 bucks, plus an extra X ammount of hours. So What general public would want a reliable commuter car, thats turbo charged? Im sure most people buy hondas for its reliability and emissions. How could you be ever SO stupid to say something like that?
Costs kept them from doing that, Everything was DESIGNED to work togeather. I cant believe you even said that. Almost everybody with a little common sense knows why they dont add 12" subs, neon lights, 16" mugen wheels full exhaust with a HUGE intake.
If you had street smarts, and not this TURBOMAGAZINE, or AZNsensation type bullshit on your mind, then you would know that you promote to the mass public, not to some ******* azn ricers with APC ****.
However Im sure if a few extra grounding points DID infact help, they $0.12 extra would probably be put to good use, but the car does NOT need it. Im 10078% insuring you, they would put the extra wires in, if it helped with performance and emmissions.
And if you put down the rebuttle that "because honda didnt have performance in mind"
Well why does their ECU's adjust for %25 fuel trim?</TD></TR></TABLE>
now everyone quit bitchin already.
OP i honestly dont think they work. but if i ever did get any i would just do it myself and just replace the OE ones with 4 or 6 guage and crimp them myself. then i would solder. do what you want. its your money. you dont have to listen to anyone
If you really wanna get ******* technical then lets do it. Ground wires cost about 4 ******* cents, a turbo costs about 600 bucks, plus an extra X ammount of hours. So What general public would want a reliable commuter car, thats turbo charged? Im sure most people buy hondas for its reliability and emissions. How could you be ever SO stupid to say something like that?
Costs kept them from doing that, Everything was DESIGNED to work togeather. I cant believe you even said that. Almost everybody with a little common sense knows why they dont add 12" subs, neon lights, 16" mugen wheels full exhaust with a HUGE intake.
If you had street smarts, and not this TURBOMAGAZINE, or AZNsensation type bullshit on your mind, then you would know that you promote to the mass public, not to some ******* azn ricers with APC ****.
However Im sure if a few extra grounding points DID infact help, they $0.12 extra would probably be put to good use, but the car does NOT need it. Im 10078% insuring you, they would put the extra wires in, if it helped with performance and emmissions.
And if you put down the rebuttle that "because honda didnt have performance in mind"
Well why does their ECU's adjust for %25 fuel trim?</TD></TR></TABLE>
now everyone quit bitchin already.
OP i honestly dont think they work. but if i ever did get any i would just do it myself and just replace the OE ones with 4 or 6 guage and crimp them myself. then i would solder. do what you want. its your money. you dont have to listen to anyone
12-22-2006, 10:15 AM
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Re: extra ground points? (CXtypeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CXtypeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my mech told me that adding extra grounds and connecting all of them to the neg of the battery is the best way?</TD></TR></TABLE>
12-22-2006, 03:01 PM
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Re: extra ground points? (USDMej1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by USDMej1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just use 4 gauge wire on the stock ground points and it will be more than necessary.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, i plan on using 4g on the following
1. valve cover -> chassis
2. transmission -> chassis
3. battery -> chassis
now, i plan on using 8g or smaller on the following
1. intake manifold -> battery
2. throttle body -> battery
3. thermostat -> battery
4. vtec soleniod -> battery
is there anything else i can ground that *might* smoothen out the engine?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah, i plan on using 4g on the following
1. valve cover -> chassis
2. transmission -> chassis
3. battery -> chassis
now, i plan on using 8g or smaller on the following
1. intake manifold -> battery
2. throttle body -> battery
3. thermostat -> battery
4. vtec soleniod -> battery
is there anything else i can ground that *might* smoothen out the engine?
12-22-2006, 03:45 PM
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Re: (CardDealer)
well in the last issue of import tuner or modified i forget but they did a write up on a old 89 civic hatch with a k20 swap
well the point of the issue was 5whp for 5 bucks and it was dyno tested and everything
what they did was improve the engines grounding wih adding extra metal plates very cheap and it did work look it up
and also if u want to know how important grounds are just unbolt them from ur car and see how it runs
well the point of the issue was 5whp for 5 bucks and it was dyno tested and everything
what they did was improve the engines grounding wih adding extra metal plates very cheap and it did work look it up
and also if u want to know how important grounds are just unbolt them from ur car and see how it runs
12-22-2006, 03:52 PM
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im thinking the fewer the better, just like length. The shorter the wire, the better. . Even the valve cover ground is a bit pointless because all it really does it prevent static discharge.
If you dont learn from me, you will learn from experience, extra ground wires are a nasty thing. I had all the extra ground points yyou could think of, but then did some readings on some wires such as my o2, getting weird readings, removed ground wires, much better. Read up on ground loops, Electricity is a weird thing, it will whoop your ***.
I say find all the stock ground points in your car, resurface the contact points, and boom your set. If the connector is corroded, replace.
As for the 3 OEM ground spots, putting 4ga wires would do only good things.
If you dont learn from me, you will learn from experience, extra ground wires are a nasty thing. I had all the extra ground points yyou could think of, but then did some readings on some wires such as my o2, getting weird readings, removed ground wires, much better. Read up on ground loops, Electricity is a weird thing, it will whoop your ***.
I say find all the stock ground points in your car, resurface the contact points, and boom your set. If the connector is corroded, replace.
As for the 3 OEM ground spots, putting 4ga wires would do only good things.
12-23-2006, 11:52 PM
#21
Re: (YoungKadafi)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by YoungKadafi »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for the 3 OEM ground spots, putting 4ga wires would do only good things.</TD></TR></TABLE>
my point thread/
my point thread/
05-13-2007, 11:35 PM
#22
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Re: extra ground points? (thesmogman)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by thesmogman »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I got the ebay kit, it was cheaper than what I could build myself.
Alt, TB, block, valve cover, tranny, chassis, and chassis. I doubled up on the chassis.
It did help idle with the lights on and it did feel smoother running.
I can post my pic if you would like?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have one of those sitting around, came free with a set of $75 dollar headlights from ebay
think it's worth hooking up?? 
?
Alt, TB, block, valve cover, tranny, chassis, and chassis. I doubled up on the chassis.
It did help idle with the lights on and it did feel smoother running.
I can post my pic if you would like?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have one of those sitting around, came free with a set of $75 dollar headlights from ebay
think it's worth hooking up??
?
05-14-2007, 07:17 AM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
Re: extra ground points? (9WON4)
Here's an idea: Clean your stock ground points and use a meter to see if there are any 'excessive' voltage drops across them. If there aren't, why are you upgrading them?
When I say clean, use an abrasive disk to get the terminal & block/chassis surface down to bare metal - no oxidazation, no paint. Wire wheel the bolt threads too.
When I say clean, use an abrasive disk to get the terminal & block/chassis surface down to bare metal - no oxidazation, no paint. Wire wheel the bolt threads too.
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