Donkeylips87

After finishing my Mini Me I am having some issues. I also did the following:

97 Civic D16Y8 Mini Me.

Pistons and Rings with P2P
Timing Belt
All Acc. Belts
Rear Main Seal
Rod Bearings
Main Bearings
Head Gasket 2 Layer
Brand New Knock Sensor
AEM Tru Time Cam Gear
Fresh Hone for Cross Hatching.
ARP Head Studs
Clutch and Flywheel
All New Coolant Hoses
New Air Filter
P2P ECU OBDII

I tried to get the timing correct today and when it is timed correct is runs like crap. It back fires, bogs down real bad. Basically not drivable. So I started to play it by ear. I'd advance a little more each time. Each time the car ran better. I have an adjustable cam gear and I am starting to push the limit of the degrees. I am at 9° advanced. I am nervous. I don't want to push it too far and have the valves hit the pistons. When at 9° advanced once in a while it bogs down in 4th gear at low RPMs. It can give it throttle but it still seems slow. (Yes, I do realize it's a D16. Therefore, it's slow) I'm not sure where to go next. Thanks for any help.

Texas4door

Was the Y8 head milled?
Because any milling of the head shortens the distance between the crank and the cam, retarding timing, or so I've heard.
I experienced the same thing you did in fact, so I cut some more out of the slots on my distributor to get it back to 0 degrees...but the timing was retarded to begin with, so idk why you're having to advance it so damn far...

Only other thing I can think of is the head was milled down so much that your compression is now too high to run regular gas on and you're backfiring and knocking, causing your knock sensor to retard your timing, causing your bogging down...
Or the ECU you picked up is crap

...and why'd you use a two layer gasket?
Why not an OEM three layer?
According to the Zealworks compression calculator, even if you didn't mill the head or block, you're still running nearly 10:1 compression with that two layer gasket and P2P pistons, more so if the block or head were milled.
Yeah, I think you raised your compression way too much, and now you're gonna have to run premium or plus gas from now on to get it to run right, man
XP

Donkeylips87

I'm not ready to buy this answer just yet. Pulling the middle layer out of a 3 layer is pretty common. The C/R would have been a little higher if I would have left the P2E pistons in it. Which folks do all the time. I never had the block milled and to my knowledge the head wasn't either. I only run plus in all my vehicles. I highly doubt a C/R of 10:1 would cause it to run like crap unless timed 9° advanced. Anyone else?

N.Balauro

You are 100% sure mechanical timing is on? Also do u have the ecu jumped? I had a prob on my mini me becuase I had a tank of rotten gas which fouled out my injectors plugs and o2, that my ecu kept retarding so i couldnt even get a steady ignition timing reading. After replacing gas and Ibjectors she ran fine.

Also r u sure u got everything wired back up rite? I once swapped my map and tps and somehow she ran with my dizzy max advanced ( not down the road without bucking like a bull tho). And my timing was like 9 degrees too retarded.

Donkeylips87

I switched the TPS and MAP connections around yesterday morning because bogged out when I even touched the gas pedal. I am 100% sure I set TDC at the Crank and the Cam gear. The fuel isn't more than 1 1/2 or 2 months old. I 99% certain I have it wired correctly. What do you mean do I have the ECU jumped? I don't follow.

Could my timing issue have anything to do with having P2P pistons in a Y7 block?

Texas4door

Ah ok now it makes sense
The blocks are the same so np there
Jumping the ecu entails jumping the test plug under the glove box
This puts the car in test mode
If u don't do this the ecu will keep correcting the timing against your actions
Find the DIY on this, set your timing back to 0 and go from there
U shouldn't have to adjust the mechanical timing
Ignition timing adjustment with the distributor should do it
Good luck!!

Donkeylips87

I got home, cleaned up the Cap and Rotor, TDC top to bottom. Jumped the ECU and adjusted for what the manual says. Now it runs just as good at it did when timed at 9 degrees. Mind you it still doesn't run right. My plan is to advance 1 degree at a time on the adjustable cam gear and play with the dizzy. Stop me if that is a bad idea. I will be out of town after tomorrow for a month. Right now I am cold and wet from the outside (damn PNW) and I have to get ready.

Thanks for the help,

Kurtis

NotAJDMFanBoy

Make sure the mechanical timing is right, 9* is equivalent to 1 tooth. What bottom end are you using and what engine was the cam gear made for? The D16Z6 and D16Y8 had timing marks like 1/2 tooth off so mixing will mean needing the gear adjusted 1/2 tooth one way or the other (cant remember which).

Higher compression (i'm not going to calculate it) will mean it may need tuned.

Bogging and running like crap could be a vacuum leak, or something with a sensor.

Donkeylips87

I am using the Y7 bottom end with Y8 pistons. The adjustable cam gear is for a Y8 engine. The C/R should be 9.86:1 vs. 9.60:1 stock D16Y8. So it's still not that bad.

Texas4door

Hrm, if it's running just as good, but you didn't have to advance the mechanical timing...yeah, fiddle with the mechanical timing a bit and see if that fixes it ^^
I still have a feeling that pulling that middle gasket layer out did something outside the usual boundaries that the ECU can handle
:/

N.Balauro

Glad to hear ur making progress! I'm at work my phone so forgive me if u answered this already - are u throwing any cel codes?

Donkeylips87

Here's the latest news: I got back in town and played with it again. It runs best at 5 degrees advanced on mechanical timing. I'm also not getting a CEL code at all. I still feel that the car is actually slower than before the swap. I also Don't feel VTec kicking in and I've swapped the solenoid wires. If I load the engine by putting the gas pedal at anything over 50% in 3rd 4th or 5th gear the engine acts like it misses when bring the pedal back up. It's almost like driving a carbed engine with a dual stage carb. At cold idle the car idles irratic and nearly dies. It gets better as it warms up but it still misses at idle.

Any help would be great.

low91rex

Still not timed properly.

Donkeylips87

Should I be messing with the mechanical timing at all? It runs like crap at 0 degrees.

Donkeylips87

Timing doesn't make sense. I used a timing light to time it and it couldn't even rev. It just back fired.

HondaPartsHero

Just to confirm its not throwing a check engine light? What was the original engine?

Donkeylips87

It is not throwing any CELs. The original engine was a D16Y7.

Donkeylips87

I double checked TDC on the top and the bottom. Then used a timing light to timing the ignition timing. Every time I would rev the engine at all it would back fire. I am not done with this engine yet. I still want to try to figure this out. Anyone else have an idea?

Donkeylips87

One last bump...
About to scrap this bitch and get an escort.

morpheus1684

Noticed this was three years ago..

was reading this in prep for tuning my bro's mini-me.. and thought i'd put in my 2cents.

I did a swap once on my CX, and did everything right... it ended up still running like crap... went over timing like a MADMAN sure that it just wasn't right... Turned out to be a clogged Catalytic converter which was giving me similar issues... bogging down in high gears at load with low rpm.... just seeming like it wasn't timed right...

so...
just thought i'd put this out there, maybe it will help someone one day.

i even took the car into a honda shop, and they couldn't find the problem.
it wasn't until i got home and took out the O2 sensor to change it and realized it ran WAY better with the o2 removed because the exhaust could escape from the sensor hole!

O_O