b16 vs b18 nonvtec
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04-16-2002, 03:37 AM
#9
Former Moderator
Re: b16 vs b18 nonvtec (Spoon1)
The ever-present B16A vs. B18B debate. (B18A should not even be considered - 130hp?)
Torque is neato, but in a race at a redlight or a drag race the B16A will pull on the LS motor hands down. There are so many upgrades for the B16A as well, like cams that make a much bigger difference than the cams will for the B18B.
Stock-for-stock the B16A will be better anyways, not just from a speed point of view either. Think about it:
The B16A was always placed in the sportiest of Hondas. Honda intended the motors to be revved hard and driven harder, so of course they built it with this in mind. Circuit raceers in Japan have been relying on the B16A since it's introduction back in 1989-1990.
The B18B was offered in the Integra that was really intended for just being a "nice" car. I'm sure it's built great, but for intended purposes it wasn't meant to be revved at even it's stock redline nearly as much as the B16A. How many racers (road race and all) use LS/VTECs too? This isn't hating on the LS motor, but in truth the B16A was intended to be ran hard, while the LS was made for the more "luxo" Integras.
I'm sure the "turbo the LS" motor banter will enter somewhere too, so let me say this too:
If you have the exact same turbo set-up on both the B16A and B18B, the B16A will put down more power - period. Turbo pretty much increases the baseline power by a percentage and once the B16A hits VTEC the power will skyrocket compared to the B18B. The B16A has a better flowing head and a much better baseline power ouput to start with.
The B18B may put down more low-end and torque, but all that will do is melt the tires on the street. The less-powered low-end on the B16A will give you more time to launch and then the wheelspin will kick in once you've moved off the line
Another thing is that B16A blocks have almost become disposable just like LS blocks used to be. Now LS blocks are becoming more rare because we have only the USDM salvage to rummage through, but the B16As are pouring in from Japan too. A first-gen shortblock can be had for very little money.
...And if you are struggling to buy the B16A but you "settle" with the B18B because of money, then why bank on doing the LS/VTEC thing later? That **** ends up being pretty expensive if you build it RIGHT, and the reliability will always be in question just because a human being tore it down and rebuilt it - we're known to make mistakes you know.
[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 12:37 PM 4/16/2002]
Torque is neato, but in a race at a redlight or a drag race the B16A will pull on the LS motor hands down. There are so many upgrades for the B16A as well, like cams that make a much bigger difference than the cams will for the B18B.
Stock-for-stock the B16A will be better anyways, not just from a speed point of view either. Think about it:
The B16A was always placed in the sportiest of Hondas. Honda intended the motors to be revved hard and driven harder, so of course they built it with this in mind. Circuit raceers in Japan have been relying on the B16A since it's introduction back in 1989-1990.
The B18B was offered in the Integra that was really intended for just being a "nice" car. I'm sure it's built great, but for intended purposes it wasn't meant to be revved at even it's stock redline nearly as much as the B16A. How many racers (road race and all) use LS/VTECs too? This isn't hating on the LS motor, but in truth the B16A was intended to be ran hard, while the LS was made for the more "luxo" Integras.
I'm sure the "turbo the LS" motor banter will enter somewhere too, so let me say this too:
If you have the exact same turbo set-up on both the B16A and B18B, the B16A will put down more power - period. Turbo pretty much increases the baseline power by a percentage and once the B16A hits VTEC the power will skyrocket compared to the B18B. The B16A has a better flowing head and a much better baseline power ouput to start with.
The B18B may put down more low-end and torque, but all that will do is melt the tires on the street. The less-powered low-end on the B16A will give you more time to launch and then the wheelspin will kick in once you've moved off the line
Another thing is that B16A blocks have almost become disposable just like LS blocks used to be. Now LS blocks are becoming more rare because we have only the USDM salvage to rummage through, but the B16As are pouring in from Japan too. A first-gen shortblock can be had for very little money.
...And if you are struggling to buy the B16A but you "settle" with the B18B because of money, then why bank on doing the LS/VTEC thing later? That **** ends up being pretty expensive if you build it RIGHT, and the reliability will always be in question just because a human being tore it down and rebuilt it - we're known to make mistakes you know.
[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 12:37 PM 4/16/2002]
04-16-2002, 03:52 AM
#10
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Re: b16 vs b18 nonvtec (B18C5-EH2)
Funny, i got a b18b1 obd 1 motor with a 2000 gsr tranny and a type r flywheel. That's all that's done, i don't even have exhaust or intake. I raced 2 of my friends, one with b16 in his car with full 2.25 exhaust and were dead even. I raced another friend who just recently got his swap, b16a and i took by a car length up to around 190km/h. All cars are 5th gen hatches. Just letting you know.
04-16-2002, 04:45 AM
#11
Former Moderator
Re: b16 vs b18 nonvtec (1.8 HB)
Well you don't have the typical LS swap then, do you? GS-R tranny and ITR flwwheels aren't normally in the run of the mill LS swaps.
That's awesome that you can beat your buddies in their B16A swaps, but what kind of times are you guys running at the strip?
Let's take the typical swaps real quick:
We'll say the base car is a 1992 Civic Hatch, and both motor swaps are from 1995 model cars - 1995 Del Sol VTEC and 1995 Integra LS. Both swaps were purchased in complete form, meaning stock engine, tranny, ECU, etc.
Which do you think would be faster? 160hp, close ratioe gearbox from the Del Sol or 140hp, taller gearing and taller final drive from the Integra LS.
The VTEC swap may cost a little more, but it is worth it IMO. I ain't knocking LS swaps, so don't get defensive and don't think I'm some "VTEC Elitist" because I'm not at all.
It's just that I've also got a B16A2 in a 1992 Si hatch and it definately pulls harder than any LS or even B20 swap I've driven or ridden in. The car has outrun a CX with a good-running LS swap, and the Cx weighs a good 200lbs. less than the Si with the B16A2.
I'm sure we could all go on for days about who beats who in what race - fine if we do, but there are exceptions to every rule.
That's awesome that you can beat your buddies in their B16A swaps, but what kind of times are you guys running at the strip?
Let's take the typical swaps real quick:
We'll say the base car is a 1992 Civic Hatch, and both motor swaps are from 1995 model cars - 1995 Del Sol VTEC and 1995 Integra LS. Both swaps were purchased in complete form, meaning stock engine, tranny, ECU, etc.
Which do you think would be faster? 160hp, close ratioe gearbox from the Del Sol or 140hp, taller gearing and taller final drive from the Integra LS.
The VTEC swap may cost a little more, but it is worth it IMO. I ain't knocking LS swaps, so don't get defensive and don't think I'm some "VTEC Elitist" because I'm not at all.
It's just that I've also got a B16A2 in a 1992 Si hatch and it definately pulls harder than any LS or even B20 swap I've driven or ridden in. The car has outrun a CX with a good-running LS swap, and the Cx weighs a good 200lbs. less than the Si with the B16A2.
I'm sure we could all go on for days about who beats who in what race - fine if we do, but there are exceptions to every rule.
04-16-2002, 06:05 AM
#12
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Re: b16 vs b18 nonvtec (B18C5-EH2)
The ever-present B16A vs. B18B debate. (B18A should not even be considered - 130hp?)
Torque is neato, but in a race at a redlight or a drag race the B16A will pull on the LS motor hands down. There are so many upgrades for the B16A as well, like cams that make a much bigger difference than the cams will for the B18B.
Stock-for-stock the B16A will be better anyways, not just from a speed point of view either. Think about it:
The B16A was always placed in the sportiest of Hondas. Honda intended the motors to be revved hard and driven harder, so of course they built it with this in mind. Circuit raceers in Japan have been relying on the B16A since it's introduction back in 1989-1990.
The B18B was offered in the Integra that was really intended for just being a "nice" car. I'm sure it's built great, but for intended purposes it wasn't meant to be revved at even it's stock redline nearly as much as the B16A. How many racers (road race and all) use LS/VTECs too? This isn't hating on the LS motor, but in truth the B16A was intended to be ran hard, while the LS was made for the more "luxo" Integras.
I'm sure the "turbo the LS" motor banter will enter somewhere too, so let me say this too:
If you have the exact same turbo set-up on both the B16A and B18B, the B16A will put down more power - period. Turbo pretty much increases the baseline power by a percentage and once the B16A hits VTEC the power will skyrocket compared to the B18B. The B16A has a better flowing head and a much better baseline power ouput to start with.
The B18B may put down more low-end and torque, but all that will do is melt the tires on the street. The less-powered low-end on the B16A will give you more time to launch and then the wheelspin will kick in once you've moved off the line
Another thing is that B16A blocks have almost become disposable just like LS blocks used to be. Now LS blocks are becoming more rare because we have only the USDM salvage to rummage through, but the B16As are pouring in from Japan too. A first-gen shortblock can be had for very little money.
...And if you are struggling to buy the B16A but you "settle" with the B18B because of money, then why bank on doing the LS/VTEC thing later? That **** ends up being pretty expensive if you build it RIGHT, and the reliability will always be in question just because a human being tore it down and rebuilt it - we're known to make mistakes you know.
[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 12:37 PM 4/16/2002]
Torque is neato, but in a race at a redlight or a drag race the B16A will pull on the LS motor hands down. There are so many upgrades for the B16A as well, like cams that make a much bigger difference than the cams will for the B18B.
Stock-for-stock the B16A will be better anyways, not just from a speed point of view either. Think about it:
The B16A was always placed in the sportiest of Hondas. Honda intended the motors to be revved hard and driven harder, so of course they built it with this in mind. Circuit raceers in Japan have been relying on the B16A since it's introduction back in 1989-1990.
The B18B was offered in the Integra that was really intended for just being a "nice" car. I'm sure it's built great, but for intended purposes it wasn't meant to be revved at even it's stock redline nearly as much as the B16A. How many racers (road race and all) use LS/VTECs too? This isn't hating on the LS motor, but in truth the B16A was intended to be ran hard, while the LS was made for the more "luxo" Integras.
I'm sure the "turbo the LS" motor banter will enter somewhere too, so let me say this too:
If you have the exact same turbo set-up on both the B16A and B18B, the B16A will put down more power - period. Turbo pretty much increases the baseline power by a percentage and once the B16A hits VTEC the power will skyrocket compared to the B18B. The B16A has a better flowing head and a much better baseline power ouput to start with.
The B18B may put down more low-end and torque, but all that will do is melt the tires on the street. The less-powered low-end on the B16A will give you more time to launch and then the wheelspin will kick in once you've moved off the line
Another thing is that B16A blocks have almost become disposable just like LS blocks used to be. Now LS blocks are becoming more rare because we have only the USDM salvage to rummage through, but the B16As are pouring in from Japan too. A first-gen shortblock can be had for very little money.
...And if you are struggling to buy the B16A but you "settle" with the B18B because of money, then why bank on doing the LS/VTEC thing later? That **** ends up being pretty expensive if you build it RIGHT, and the reliability will always be in question just because a human being tore it down and rebuilt it - we're known to make mistakes you know.
[Modified by B18C5-EH2, 12:37 PM 4/16/2002]
yes I agree with him...
04-16-2002, 06:26 AM
#13
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Re: b16 vs b18 nonvtec (wizzards581)
hard to say.. i have seen some b16a's run like crap and i have seem some b18b's run like crap.. i have a b18b stock in my dx hb. it runs pretty good if i could do it over again i think i would go b16a.. i got a good deal on the b18b so i bought it. (motor,tranny,ecu,mounts,shiftlinkage,axles,radiat or,dash,console, door panels for $1000 motor had 58k on it. so that was a deal that i couldnt pass up. unless you find a good deal like i did go b16a or b18c. vtec motors are nice! 
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