digme

right now my car does not have a PA sticker for inspection... (due about 3 months ago)... I really need help... here is the whole story guys...

Car 1999 Accord

81,000K - My cousin takes the car and puts diesel in the engine
- I just drain the diesel out myself and run the car with highest octane rating of gas for about 3 weeks, and it just works fine

89,000K - My converter starts to making this awful sound as if there was a rock in there so i had to change it... mind you, i think i bought an OEM (Honda Proprietery is almost double i earn for a living in a month)....

- My car during these times was registered in Maryland... and every year that i went there all i had to do was unplug the battery to reset the light, and wallah, it did its miracle...

98,000K - i register my car in PA... fail emission test... just fails miserably at first instance (don't really know exactly what happened)

Now- car is 100,000K - first the engine completely cuts off sometimes in very hot days ( has done that about twice or so on highways, and i know when i think it fails because it fires back while driving it consistently) ... OH I FORGOT, the firing back started right after the whole sagga with the diesel was dealt with. But it never cut off until this summer rolled around, and when i am usually on idle cruise while forexample, i am going a downhill and no gas do i apply from the pedal, it cuts off..... (i have had to find shade to park it so that it would be cool)
-- I HAVE NOT changed my fuel filter yet but am reading about it right now...
- I just learned how to get the code without having to pay $40 for a stupid scanner...
Code is 67... Catalyst system efficency below threshold( by the way, curious, what the heck is that third group of blinking for the flash codes... the first two are the first numbers but there is a third flash and then it cycles back)


--- I am not that knowledgable about cars... but i would seriously like to fix this problem once and for all and be done with it (never mind dodge police in PA).... PLEASE HELP! Appreciate any comments....

JimBlake

When you got a new catalyst, did you also get new oxygen sensors? The diesel fuel might have screwed them up too?? The 2nd sensor (after the cat) is used to measure how the cat is working.

That funny extra flash might be that you have both code 67 & code 1.

(Maybe your cousin can pay for a couple of O2 sensors...)

digme

hey thanks for the quick response...
i never replaced the O2 sensors. also, the third flash that i was talking about is 9 flashes... I really shudder what that is supposed to mean... i am really hoping that it is irrelevant... but if it isnot, the code is either supposed to be a "CYP sensor" or worst off yet maybe a EVAP control leak... since it was the slow flash i am beginning to think it is an EVAP control leak... i don't have the faintest clue on what that means! but i will first go change the O2 sensors... by the way, how much are the O2 sensors?

JimBlake

O2 sensors aren't real cheap... But shop around.

AutoZone (around here) reads OBD-2 codes for free. They're a little more specific than the flashing light codes anyway. For example there's a couple of them that cover code 90 & a couple others that cover code 9. Then it won't be ambiguous. But it's reasonable to believe that an EVAP system leak is unrelated to the diesel fuel fiasco.

digme

thanks Jim.... went to AutoZone looking for a sensor... didn't have it in stock.. but i think i am going to order it online... i read somewhere that usually the one before the converter (attached to the manifold) is the one that fails common if any of the two fail. How true is that? that would mean i would only have to worry about changing one... (too bad that my good multimeter was stolen... i can't test voltage as Haynes wants me to, to test if they are working properly...AHH... anyway, thanks for the info about autozone i will try them tomorrow to see if they can read the ODB-II)

JimBlake

Your ECU uses the first sensor to adjust fuel delivery so the air/fuel ratio is good. The second sensor (after the cat) is only used to verify that the cat is working.

Maybe the first is more likely to fail, but that's for normal cars that haven't had diesel fuel... Your code P0420 (67) says that the ECU thinks the cat isn't working. But the cat is new, so I thought maybe it's the sensor's fault. If you wanna only buy one sensor, you're the one who has to pass emmissions...

Sounds like you've read code 67 by the flashing-light method. So you know the difference between long & short flashes. Have you decided what the second code is? 9 short = CYP sensor, 9 long = EVAP leak, or ???

digme

thanks for response again Jim... yesterday was searching madly for sensors all over town... anyway, it is 9 long... EVAP leak... I don't even know what that is supposed to mean... i really want to find more about this stuff... but Haines can only give me so much info... maybe i will just learn what some of these parts do.... i am beginning to realize that if the 02 sensor doesnot fix the problem, i am in for a big spending-totally screwed up situation.... oh, to make matters worst, i really need that vehicle to work... (only way of transportation)...EH.. (appreciate you hanging in here to answer, feel snubbed by others who could have at least dropped their two cents... i guess this is not about spoilers and H22s and freakin addons..just a vent!)

JimBlake

Code 90 EVAP leak is covered by 2 different OBD2 codes. P1456 is the fuel tank system & that can be caused by a loose gas cap among other things. P1457 is the charcoal canister system. Something's not airtight like it should be.

I got a P1457 last year, here's a bit of a write-up. Look for my post towards the bottom.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=748876

digme

went ahead and changed the O2 Sensor in the manifold. I saw a big difference in how the car was idling for it was idling perfectly around the 650-750 range. But then after driving the car on the highway the next morning the code came back.

what i am afraid now is whether :

1) i have blown messed up the O2 sensor that i just installed in the intake manifold(before Cataly-converter)

2) from what i read, the ECM calculates the efficency of the CC(converter) from the two 02 readings. Having already replaced the CC at previously stated milage due the car being run with diesel at one point, more convinced that the second O2 sensor(after the CC) is the one bad. THis thing is really driving me nuts.

3)MAJOR THING THAT I NOTICED: when the air mixture outside has a lot of humidity, that is when the car sometimes just completely dies in the midst of travel. When there is no humidity and the engine is not that hot, or the outside temperature is not that hot, it runs fine. Like during days that we had rain the past few days here in Maryland, i really had a tough time for it would just stall in the midst of driving, like as if all of a sudden there was no fuel being supplied. THE WEIERDEST OF ALL THIS, when it would stall, all the instrument panel indictaors would go off as if the battery had just died, but then when i hit the key again, it would not start but the panel lights, at the first key turn would all be on... i hope i explained my problem well... even if some of you don't have this problem maybe somebody will benefit from it...... by the way, thanks for all your help JIMBLAKE... appreciate it a lot...

JimBlake

Which code came back? And did the engine continue to run nice or not?

If it's code 90 for the EVAP leak, that's got nothing to do with the O2 sensors. After you reset your ECU, it takes a while before the code comes back. Even if you never fix it.

your #1) I don't think so, but not completely sure.

your #2) Since there was immediate improvement when you replaced the primary O2 sensor, I think that one was bad. Maybe now you're proving to yourself that they both were bad. I don't think you made a mistake by replacing the primary, but maybe you should have replaced both.

your #3) Does everything shut off, just like you had turned off the key?? That's starting to sound like a flaky ignition switch. Which should not be related to the weather at all...

I just went back up & read thru your posts again... After the deisel fuel, did you get new spark plugs? That might explain the backfiring or whatever it is...

jweller

have you had the ignition switch recall done? call your dealer with your VIN and ask if it applies to you. this might be your shutting off problem.

I agree with JimBlake, change your plugs if you haven't since the diesel fiasco.

for future reference, you can reset the ECU by pulling fuse #13 (clock/backup) in the passenger side fusebox for 10 seconds or longer. no need to pull the battery cable

check the 2nd O2 sensor. that is most likely the culprit for the code. AFAIK, that sensor doesn't effect how the engine runs though.

notoriousB

I agree, replacing the primary o2 sensor is NOT going to get rid of a "catalyst system below efficiency" code

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by digme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">mind you, i think i bought an OEM (Honda Proprietery is almost double i earn for a living in a month)</TD></TR></TABLE>

what does this ^^^ mean? did you get a honda cat or an aftermarket? if you got a cheap-o aftermarket cat that could be the source of your problems also.

digme

again thanks guys (jim, as always, jweller and notorious) in all honesty, and this might sound like an after we said this, i did have an inkling feeling in the beginning maybe there was nothing that the code 67 had to do with this shut off....

i called the dealer... the dealer said yes there was a recall on the switches for 1998 and 99 Accords... If there is anyone who has not done it so, I highly recommend it, since I was in EXTREME DANGER since my engine shut off completely WITHOUT ANY WARNING, AND WITHOUT ANY SLOW DOWN IMMEDIATELY while i was traveling AT 80 mph. I am really lucky

-- going to get it fixed tomrrow morning. SHOULD I GET THE CODES SCANNED OR WILL THEY TRY TO SCAM ME?

also, the CConverter that i bought was an after-market one and i regret that now. Mind you, the mechanic that i usually go to, and this guy is the only one who has seen it during the few times that i didn't have time to do most of the maintenance stuff, he DID NOT WANT TO INSTALL a CConverter on my car. I had always been curious why he said that... never bothered to ask him... i took it to another mechanic and he put it on while i watched him... why do you guys think my mechanic said that? i am really curious now since all these code issues seem to be surrounded around the CAT.

v4lu3s

do you know what brand of cat htey put on? a lot of cats ar enot gonna work for an obd2 car while they work great for obd1...

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by digme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i called the dealer... the dealer said yes there was a recall on the switches for 1998 and 99 Accords...</TD></TR></TABLE>I had a recall done on the ignition switch, but it was some kind of update for the park/neutral starter interlock. It didn't seem to have anything to do with what you're seeing. But they didn't give me the parts to look at, so maybe...?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by digme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-- going to get it fixed tomrrow morning. SHOULD I GET THE CODES SCANNED OR WILL THEY TRY TO SCAM ME?</TD></TR></TABLE>Ask if they'll simply read the codes & tell you what they are. Most dealers will at least answer that question... If not, have AutoZone read the codes. But get the code #s, because they sometimes get kinda ..um.. creative with the explanation of what each code means.

digme

i am coming back to update if there is anybody that is going through the same thing:

1) that stalling in the middle of the highway was due to the ignition switch...and since there was a recall, they fixed it and have not had a single incident of that...

2) i finally took a gamble and changed the O2sensor after the CAT... it has been four days, and i have driven the car more than 60 MPH for (an extended 5-10 min at 60-80 is what the book references to, - by the way i got the book about a week ago)- I am pretty sure the code is cleared now... because it usually would take just a day, or one trip on a highway and the code would kick..

3) the only code i have to clear now is the P1457..(took the car to autozone to get it done).. i am kinda of confused what how to test vaccum... what you feel something on your hands or do you necessarily need that gauge to get the job done...

ONE IMPORTANT THING: I FOUND OUT THAT I Might have disconnected my hose at the wrong place (after by accident finding out the page in the book about where one should and should not disconnect the hoses in and through the fuel system) when i drained the diesel fuel...

after all, the code P0420 was related to O2 sensor than the CAT itself. I am pretty sure even the O2sensor before the CAT was shot too....

-- i would like explanations on what it means that something holds vaccum... (please don't laugh)! thanks for the help

JimBlake

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by digme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ONE IMPORTANT THING: I FOUND OUT THAT I Might have disconnected my hose at the wrong place (after by accident finding out the page in the book about where one should and should not disconnect the hoses in and through the fuel system) when i drained the diesel fuel...</TD></TR></TABLE>Depending on what you disconnected by mistake, that might have caused P1457 right there. Connect it back up properly, pull the #13 fuse in the right door jamb for 30 seconds, & see if the error comes back.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by digme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-- i would like explanations on what it means that something holds vaccum...</TD></TR></TABLE>Holding vacuum means you can suck on it & nothing comes through. You're checking if the valve is open or closed. I wouldn't use my mouth for this, & not only because of sucking gasoline would be bad... Some of the valves have very small openings, & even when they're open you might not be able to tell.

But... the vent-shut valve that was bad on my car, when I used jumpers to connect it to the battery, it didn't even click. So in my case I could tell it was bad anyway.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by digme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(please don't laugh)</TD></TR></TABLE>what about giggling???