Mishako129

I'm making this thread to ask a question about my rebuild. Now before you slam me for creating a new thread instead of adding to my existing "Rebuild Thread" I want to say that I am doing this because I find no threads on the subject matter. Plus I think I will get a better answer this way.

So i'm consuming oil. Lots of oil. I can go about 200 miles and consume 1 quart of oil.

I decided to pull the head cause I thought it was leaking oil from the HG. Here is a valve I pulled out of my sohc head. This was after a rebuild of 0.50 OS pistons, new rings, pistons, valve seals. Rebuilt head.

Here is a exhaust valve after 30,000 miles. Caked in oil.



Here are my pistons after the same mileage, also caked in oil:





I wanted to know why my engine was burning so much oil. One thing I think probably caused this is the piston rings. I put my piston rings on the reverse order. Instead of having the 2nd compression ring (which is really an oil scrapper, as I have learned) on the bottom, I put it on the top, and visa versa. Now I knew that I reversed them after the rebuild, but I did not know how problematic this really was. Then I just read something which shocked me in an article:

"Modern theory holds that the second ring is about 85 to 90 percent oil control and only 5 to 10 percent compression control, so to better manage the oil, there's a definite trend toward the Napier (hooked or claw-shaped) second ring.."

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/e...#ixzz2rdB0Uy8Y



My question is should I get a new engine or should I drive it till it blows up? Also if my theory is correct that reversing the rings caused such a massive consumption of oil.

What engine should I go with? Should I rebuild another F22 or get a JDM engine? I do have a spare block... Idk. Don't have a lot to spend.

NZXTInerTia

Go buy a Civic, so we don't have to listen to your BS over in the Accord forum anymore.

Mishako129

Hahaha, very funny. Just a simple question.

"BS"? Sounds like you're the one spewing BS.

I don't give a damn that I messed up the rebuild. Do you think it really matters to me? All of this has just been a learning experience for me to find out how to fix cars. The money I spent on it is no problem either. Ur just upset something similar might happen to your rebuild... I'll be laughing my *** off when it does and you're in tears about it.

krafh

The good thing is that you recognise what you did. to much unburnt oil/fuel will cause huge carbon build up.
the walls of the cylinders are scored, it will cost some money to machine block for rebuild, plus bearings, gaskets etc...
use your spare block, also replace valve seals and seat valves.

CD5B2

Just buy a STOCK engine in running condition, no rebuilt craigslist bumbaclod bullshit or some rat bagged JDM engine. I'd go for an f22a6. Don't mess with it and keep it stock. You're only allowed to change the oil from now on.

NZXTInerTia

umadbro?

Mishako129

Only oil changes?






With all kidding aside I think I'm more than capable of building an engine right the next time around. I've already come this far the engines lasted me over 30,000 miles. I think I wil be blessed if it lasts me 100,000. Really I wanted to hear technical information about what reversing the order of the rings would do, if it would cause the symptoms i'm describing.

What I think would be a wise decision is get an F23 short block and slap an F22a or F22b dohc head on there. That would be the easiest thing. Like another person said though, I could just rebuild the spare block I already have, however I think that I will give it a rest with the engine overhauling thing. If I rebuid another F22a it will just be stock like what I have now and I don't really want that, I want something new.

CD5B2

I'm telling ya, keep it simple and stock next time. That f22a6 is the way to go. Decent enough stock power for the wagon. Plus it's from the same generation of accords.

Well maybe you will get lucky and ghost or madmike will reply with their tech lingo. But I wouldn't count on that.

MAD_MIKE

Consume oil and scuff the **** out of your bores.

With the rings in the wrong positions control of compression and oil are poor. The engine may run but it does not mean it is anywhere near efficiency. Also the consumption of oil has probably fouled the O2 sensor, so you go that to clean/fix/replace as well.

Did you even look at the rings before installation?
Top rings usually have a barrel face to them, second ring has an angle to aid in compression and oil control, and oil rings are pretty obvious. The two top rings will always have a mark to indicate up.

Where are you getting your engine rebuild information from?

Find a nice stock F22 install it and leave it alone. Clean up the Smurf spunk all over your engine bay. Your car is a burgundy Honda Accord not a Ford engine from '65.

Want to learn how to rebuild an engine, do this;
Find a nice beat up SBC early 80's 305 most people will give a 305 away.
Purchase the Haynes How to rebuild a small block Chevy manual, cause its good enough.
Diagnose any problems it has(because it will have problems) and correctly identify the problem and repair.
Unless there is catastrophic damage, a typical SBC can be rebuilt with a crap ~$100 bearing/gasket kit and a new cam/lifters. Paint it perry winkle blue and sell it for the cost of parts.
The great thing about SBCs is most deadbeats/hicks/drunks/and the blind can rebuild a SBC.

Mishako129

Yeah I wanted to say my machinist messed up the specs on the overbore but now that I think about it the rings probably caused it.

Speaking of O2 sensors, is that really true cause last time I checked it didn't look like oil, it looked like coolant on the sensor. Probably burned it all off but why didn't it throw a code I wonder.

Yeah I kinda didn't look a whole lot into that, I was going by my own understanding which was foolish. Plus I was all jittery to get the thing back on the road and fixed again. You could say it was nervousness itself that caused me to overlook it.
Main reason I mixed them up was I put the ring which said "T1" on the top and "T2" on the bottom. They were Honda rings and were stamped like that. I misinterpreted them and was ignorant of their usage and location. I almost even forgot to put the thrust washers in lol.

Honda manual, but I didn't know how to read it lmao. Yeah i'm gonna fix the engine bay as well, I thought about using my pressure washer to strip it off. Paint stripper may be too caustic.

I don't know where I'm gonna find a good F22a engine, where I live most Accords have at least 200,000 miles on them. I'm not gonna put a questionable engine in my Accord.

Yeah I guess that's how you learn to do it. That is basically what I just did with my F engine only I messed up when I installed the rings. Feel kinda dumb now that I think about it. Everything was ace except that... and the 65' ford blue engine bay.

Mishako129

Does anyone know where I can rent a tow cart for my wagon to tow an engine?

I only need it for about 10 miles. Something like this perhaps?




Engines weigh about 300 lbs... I honestly don't think I'm gonna be able to put that in my wagon and don't want to risk the damage it might cause.

MAD_MIKE

Coolant will leave the trace color of the coolant. Green leaves a greenish hue etc. If it was ashy/white white looking that is burnt oil. Narrow band O2s, even the good ones, are still **** when it comes to setting a code. Actually that has more to do with the ECU programing. Unless the sensor is dead or has a short/open connection the laziest of sensors will not cause the ECU to set a code. As long as it seems some activity the ECU will probably not set a code. Only when the O2 no longer sends a switching signal will the ECU set a code.
No idea how Honda has the rings labeled. I bought a Honda because I never wanted to have to open it up. From the engines I have had apart it has always been the top ring is barrel shaped or beveled on both edges, and the second ring will have a single angle cut. Markings always face up.
If you just painted it without cleaning then it will probably blast of. If you did some prep work and the paint sticks, I would just re spray bomb the whole bay. For ease of maintenance white/grey is great for spotting any leaks. But black hides flaws.
Find an importer and get one of those 30-50K mile JDM engines. Most places will ship.

U-Haul, they have Open Utility Trailers, or Enclosed Cargo trailers. Cargo trailers are more car friendly than the Utility units.

With a wagon, I would leave the back seat up, cut out some 1/2" plywood as a floor and another piece to protect the back of the seat. Cut a few holes/slots to loop two ratcheting tie downs through the plywood. Place engine on top, strap down. This will prevent any damage to the car, and keeps the engine from sliding all over.

Personally I would just order up an engine from an importer and pay the extra change to have it dropped off via liftgate to the garage.

ej7attack

had a Toyota 4 cyl in the back of my old cb9 once. didn't do too bad! lol

Mishako129

The engine i'm looking at is 380lbs with all the accessories. I don't think I wanna even try and load that up if I don't have to. Last time I loaded a automatic transmission which was a beast and it only weighed 140 lbs.

Almost triple that, heck no that's not happenin'!

GhostAccord

Check the GVWR for your wagon....

If my Accord sedan can handle 2-3 180-200lb passengers in the back without bottoming out. I think your wagon should be able to handle the engine. Unless you are worried about damaging the interior. If that is the case, then all you need is a tarp and an old tire to set the engine on.

I transported an iron block 2.0L ford engine and trans in the back of my Tribute with absolutely no issues.

Mishako129

Its more about not damaging the interior. It'd be so much easier if a liftgate service came to my house and I will find a engine company that uses it.

Anyways. I'm split in what to do as of now. I wanted to get the F23 engine and then put the F22 head on it, then there was this H22 long block for sale for about the same price, but the guy said it had sludge in the head. Should I buy the engine with the sludge in the head or make a frankenstein F23/F22 engine? Those are my 2 options. I like the idea of getting the complete H22 because then I wouldn't have to worry about messing it up, but it does have sludge in the head. The reason its so cheap was because someone I guess had returned it. I do have this product called "Gunk" that's been sitting in my shed for 3 years now, unopened. I figured if I got the engine i'd use that in it.

Here is the engine with the sludge in the head:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111274080184...S:1123&vxp=mtr



Reason i'm doing all this is because of budget. Most I want to spend is 5-700 dollars. Now there is the F20B for sale for about that price, however that engine I heard has little torque (147 ft lb) and the F22 (145 ft lbs) could keep up with it. 2.0 liter engine in a wagon would be funny though.
Then there's the H23 Vtec which I idolize. I could get that if I wanted it enough, its just I don't know if it will be worth the 1,200 spent on it, especially if I could get the same or similar amount of power from the F23 bottom end.

Mishako129

Too late, already ordered the F23 engine. Pray to God it makes it here in one piece and completely undamaged.