HiProfile

If you seriously read this thread & posted that question, nothing we say will help you. It's already all there, just re-read it all.

jdm92_accorn

I meant to post this the other day, Found a cool new feature the other weekend at the track on my gps. I ran a 13.858 at the track and my gps read this

Its fairly accurate.

Mishako129

That's cool man. What kind of gps unit is that I wonder. 6 second 0-60 is impressive.


I'm gonna ask you something. Just wondering if when I go to pull the f22b dohc head off if i'm gonna need to resurface it again. Don't really wanna do it but I wanna know.

Mishako129

I trust what you say about the 260 regrind, been researching about it and came to the same conclusion. Anythign bigger would be bad on the valve train also. I decided to send in 2 extra H23 cams to get it done at Delta. I know that the 272 is the same price I just don't want to risk happening what you just said. 260 was said over the phone to be their "torque grind" and I'm sure I won't be disappointed by it... I got a set of H22 obd1 injectors would it be good to use those with the f22b dohc p39 ecu?


Larger cams would call for better springs and retainers (what about keepers?), money I don't exactly want to dish out right now. When it comes to tuning i'm a sitting duck and know no one who does it. You gotta do what you can with what you have I guess.

By the way its double the price for the H23 cams to be reground, $95 per cam so that's $200. A meager price to pay for a good amount of power. I still would like to get the Bisi header, even though someone said that it makes you run lean on a stock ecu.

GhostAccord

Jumping from 240cc to 345cc injectors on a stock ECU will not work. An old set of low impedance Accel 255cc injectors you can get away with. I ran a set of them on my stock ECU with good gains with a cam and intake upgrade.

My cam was closer to a 272 grind and the idle wasn't crappy, it's what they call lopey. The low end did not suffer and a 15cc increase in injector flow was more than enough to keep the injector duty cycle in the 80's on a stock ECU. never ran lean even at WOT. Have to say that the increase I saw with a chipped and tuned ECU was much better. A stock ECU will always try to keep the engine running at a stoich 14.7:1 AFR witch is more for emissions than performance.

Mishako129

Really, so no H22 injectors, ok.
I was looking into those Accel injectors too but someone said that the stock injectors could be bumped up to 255cc just by using a FPR.

What do you mean it was "closer to a 272 grind"? What grind was it? Regardless I think i want to play it safe and get the 260. Then I may remove the butterflies on my manifold and put my 2.25" exhaust back on to let it breath better...

But yeah I wanna keep it simple someone said if you get 272 you gotta get "a chipped ECU for it as well, fuel psi regulator, fuel psi gauge and adjustable cam gear minimal."^^Link

Plus I was reading a story on the Cb7 forum of how when he got his 272 for an H23 he was having soemm clearance issues. << Link

On stock springs as well I would have to be crazy and even if I got the 272 with the springs it would automatically call for a engine management tune because why would you put $550 into the engine with a cam and springs (springs with retainers are $350) without a tune that would be silly. I think right now is I'll get the 260 grind and in the meantime find a tuner, then when and if I get it tuned I will have the ability to get the stiffer springs and retainers and the bigger 272 cam.

Right now i'm looking for reliability, idle quality and gas mileage, power and easy modification. The 260 should be fine for now on what I got.

GhostAccord

Do you know what they are talking about when they say Delta 260 cam grind? Do you know the reasons that you might need springs for a particular grind, aside from someone suggesting an upgrade? Do you know what springs they are selling you?

These are some of questions you should be asking yourself when looking at getting a camshaft.

The camshaft I was using was an F22 grind that I ordered that was similar to the Bisi level 2. No aftermarket springs were installed and it did run on a stock ECU, all be it not the best. No matter what a new set of valve springs, retainers and locks along with a chipped and tuned ECU will always help any aftermarket camshaft perform. I took a chance running that cam on old tired springs. I never revved my engine high enough to find out exactly how tired they were!

As far as increasing injector flow by increasing fuel pressure, it works. Depending on the style of injector that may or may not work to your advantage though. On a stock 240cc, raising the FP to 50psi will give you approx. 260cc flow rate. if all your injectors are operating perfectly.

When you start doing this you never know really how much each injector is flowing... unless you have them flow balanced/tested at different fuel pressures. Besides that you are just asking for trouble increasing injector flow on a stock ECU with no way of monitoring your AFRs. I had a wideband O2 sensor and gauge hooked up when I ran my 255's on the stock ECU. I also had an OBD scanner so I could watch the stock ECU fuel trims.

Another thing to look at is in order to do this you need an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and a fuel pressure gauge. The cheaper the product the less accurate they are. So it could probably be cheaper in the long run to buy some 255cc injectors and have the flow tested.

Mishako129

Aight, cool.

Springs I have are low mileage and looked new.

Oh I see.

Okay, but the accel injectors are at the cheapest $170. I still don't know what increasing the cc's would do for the engine, I thought the ECU increases the fuel automatically? And even if I got the bigger injectors would not the stock regulator hold back the extra fuel? I'm thinking that I may not even need the extra fuel management. Someone here just said he made 176 wtq on the stock 240cc injectors (but was he using an adj fpr?).

Mishako129

Found out how to install the adj fps that is a bolt on I just don't know where to install the fuel gauge there's a spot on the fuel filter that's perfect and they have kits for them but I don't know if that's the right spot to check the fuel pressure.

GhostAccord

With a cam upgrade and some minor intake work and an exhaust the 240cc should be just fine. Again a chipped ECU and wideband O2 sensor will help determine that for sure. You really shouldn't just go blindly changing stuff if you have no idea what the end result will be.

Injectors are designed to flow XXXcc/min @ XX% Duty cycle and XXpsi. The ECU will adjust the pulse width of the injector (opening and closing) to control the amount of fuel delivered to maintain the target AFR. However, that does not effect the actual cubic centimeters of flow/hr of that particular injector. So yes the ECU will increase fuel, but once your injectors run out of flow there is nothing the ECU can do to add more flow.

As far as the regulator reducing injector flow. The 255cc injectors are designed to flow 255cc/min @ stock Accord fuel regulator pressure, therefor the stock regulator will not effect the injectors flow rate. Same if you have 450cc injectors. If they are designed to flow 450cc/min @ 32-46psi then a stock Honda regulator will work. It will not restrict the actual flow of the injector unless the injector requires a higher working pressure then the regulator can produce.

Man for someone who seems to spend a lot of time on the internet and working on cars you still have very little knowledge on how the PGM-FI systems actually work. You should try reading up on this sort of stuff instead of relying on what you hear or how you think stuff should work. You aren't reinventing the wheel here. Déjà vu anyone!

GhostAccord

If it is a gauge type you want it as close to the fuel rail as possible so you can get a more precise reading. Some aftermarket AFPR actually have a 1/8npt bung in them so you can instal a gauge.

Guess it all depends on how you want to go about it.

Mishako129

What does this mean? I already ordered the kit from eBay that is for the fuel filer. I take it that you mean its fine to read pressure at the fuel filter. Its a liquid filled gauge I'm sure it'll last... I hope at least. Anyways it will be interesting to see the stock pressure is, if its low or whatever. I'll get the FPR too just not right now I don't want to be impulsive about it. Everything in its own time.

This is what I got now:




This is what I'm getting later:




Any tips on installing it? And using it lol.


Edit:

Hold on a minute, can't I just disconnect the vacuum hose on the stock FPS to bump the pressure up? Guy on the other forum said so: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showpost...78&postcount=2

GhostAccord

Not really. Unhooking the vacuum hose from the FPR will not raise your overall fuel pressure. It will make it so you only have one constant 43-46psi. Our FPR use vacuum to adjust the fuel pressure between 30 & 47psi for idle and WOT. You need to hit 52/55 PSI to make 240cc injectors flow up to 260cc. unhooking the FPR will not do that.

When the FPR has vacuum applied, low throttle/cruising conditions (with vacuum in the manifold) it will drop the fuel pressure as demand for fuel is not as high. This in turn will make the fuel injector act more like a 220cc injector. Then at wide open throttle, when there is no vacuum applied to the FPR (no vacuum in the manifold), it raises the fuel pressure to meet the fuel demand. The injector should then flow it's true 240cc.

As far as hooking them up goes, it depends on if that is a fuel rail mounted regulator or a remotely mounted regulator. If it is remotely mounted you will need a hose barb adapter so you can remove the OEM FPR from the rail and add a hose between it and your new AFPR. If it is a rail mounted installation, then that is pretty straight forward. Just replace your old FPR with the new AFPR.

GhostAccord

Now as far as mounting the gauge to the fuel filter. I'm not that familiar with the 4th gen '91 Accord Wagon. However, if it is anything like the 4th gen '90-93 Accord sedan and coupes, it may be a tough one to read down there under the vacuum box and intake.

Now if you have all that out of the way and you can clearly see your fuel filter. Then that location should work for you.

Mishako129

Thanks man you saved me a bunch of headache it turns out that this gauge won't work on my accord.

BIG T

what cams did you have for this setup

jdm92_accorn

out running from my brother's vvl b13 at the industrial park i work at with the f22 bottom end i put in while im building my f23 bottom end. he's got 40whp less but he also weighs a solid 600+lbs less and going up hill it's a challenge, believe me, lol.



out playing around in the industrial park. it sounds so good. im loving this new clutch. if you notice right around 6sec you can see the TWO marks, lol. i swear this is the only open diff car that always leaves two marks that i know of. i hate that i never got to drive the f23 bottom end with this clutch, oh well when i finish building it i will.

jdm92_accorn

the long awaited....


f22b bottom end made 191whp and the f23 made 206whp. so a peak loss of 15whp and 13wtq. down low it's fairly noticeable but thanks to the clutch not slipping it's *** off in the first three gears the car actually feels faster up top, lol. i may just slap the f23 bottom end back in it with the new clutch and build the f22b bottom end. it should be 210whp~ with the clutch not slipping up top and alot faster in the first couple gears. as it turns out all that "wheel spin" in 2nd and 3rd gear was probably the clutch slipping. maybe i can get into the 13.6-13.7 range :D. id rather build the f22b bottom anyways because i can sleeve and bore it to 90mm, drop in a 100mm h22 crank and have a 2545cc monster of a f-series. the f23 is limited to a 87mm bore stock sleeve and 88mm aftermarket sleeved bore. trust me when i tell you that 2mm extra bore is worth it. 112cc increase in displacement is worth some hp. hell i only dropped 98cc and it cost me 15whp. so thats 17whp+ easy going from 2433cc to 2545cc. long story short, a stock f22b bottom end works well in stock form under a f22a6 head but a f23 bottom end in stock form works better.