civic_turbo_wannabe

Im trying to figure out how to configure the pcv and catch can system on a d16z6. Ive searched and searched only to find people arguing about different systems.

So... from what i understand. The catch can (WITH BREATHER) goes inbetween the valve cover and pre-turbo intake pipe? Is this correct?

What i dont understand is the PCV valve bit.
Ive added a pic to help explain. Is the PCV valve number 2? that plastic thing?
so does number 1 and number 2 have to be capped? or can i use number 1 as a vacuum sorce for BOV? or what? please explain. Anyone?



Also heard PCV valve needs to be pulled out or something, then what?

ys1civicsi

the pcv valve is the red plastic thing some may be black or yield a diff. color yours is red it mus add 5hp

JSPECSIR

you need to remove your #2 and either put a filter there so it can vent or run it to a catch can. also you will need to remove the hose from the valve cover and do the same with it. as for #1, once disconnected either cap it off or use it for your vaccum source, just do not leave it open.

civic_turbo_wannabe

Okay cheers guys, we are almost there. But does the PCV valve have to be open? Hollowed out?

So i need to run 3 pipes to the catch can? One from PCV? one from valve cover and the other going to the pre turbo intake pipe?

Or 2 pipes, and just use a breather for the valve cover?

jewjew bean

I recommend leaving the pcv system the way it is. During vacuum, it helps draw oil vapors/ blow by out of the crankcase into the manifold for it to be burned that would otherwise be let out to atmosphere sticking up your ride and giving you a headache.

If you're concerned about crank pressure, weld an an fitting on the valve cover and hook it up to a breather can

civic_turbo_wannabe

Well i live in the UK so my car has to pass emmisions tests, tested at the exhaust only.

So if i use the first method, getting rid of the PCV valve and using a catch can and breather system for PVC and valve cover using the pre-turbo for vacuum.
Will this lower my exhaust emmisions?

Sprockets

iTrader: (6)

If you have no visual inspection, you'll be fine. Remove #1 & #2. Put a vacuum cap on #1, or use it as a vacuum source to a wastegate or bov. Don't hollow out the pcv, because that's not enough. Get underneath the car and remove the stock pcv box. Have someone weld a couple of -12an fittings on the valve cover and run hoses to an open breather catch can mounted as high as possible. I don't know how the D series guys return their oil to the crankcase, but maybe you can use the hole left after you removed the pcv box. Just make sure you buy a catch can with a drain on the bottom, like a Moroso.

BiggieBert

I am putting the moroso pan into my D16Z6. I've removed the stock breather box plugged the hole, welded two fittings into my valve cover and run them to the can with the breather. if this is done the pcv valve and two hoses can be removed, then simply plug the port on the i/m. I am not running any drain back, from what I understand that **** needs to stay out of the engine. you will just have to empy the can every week or two. (a fitting in the bottom like the moroso is key)

jewjew bean

the oil vapors/ blow-by gasses will make you sick in a street driven vehicle with no pcv system.

There's nothing wrong with having the pcv system intact when turbo. in fact, it helps draw out the vapors and blow-by when you're in vacuum and idle which mean you will be smelling less sh^t

Legion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jewjew bean &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There's nothing wrong with having the pcv system intact when turbo</TD></TR></TABLE>

Except we don't know how much they leak under boost, in which case it would actually pressurize the crankcase.

TorganFM.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jewjew bean &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
There's nothing wrong with having the pcv system intact when turbo. in fact, it helps draw out the vapors and blow-by when you're in vacuum and idle which mean you will be smelling less sh^t</TD></TR></TABLE>

Get real... if the PCV valve fails (and they do all the time) you'll end up pressurizing the crankcase, not to mention also the VC with the stock PCV setup intact. You'll end up blowing the VC gasket or something even worse. Who cares if you smell oil... your motor won't be busted up. Don't listen to this guy you should either recirculate the crankcase gases into the inlet of the turbo, a bernouli bung thing in the exhaust (won't work for emissions), or let that **** vent to the air or a baffled can. Pick one and go with it. The last thing you want to do is add boost to your crankcase.

civic_turbo_wannabe

Sorry fort the bad pic, just scribbled it. This is how im gunna do it. Is the breather for the catch can okay there? On the pipe near it? Because its not a vented can. Or should i modify the can to put the brreather on top of it?

Please tell me if this is drasticlly wrong.

Legion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_turbo_wannabe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Please tell me if this is drasticlly wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's drastically wrong. Catch-cans come in two flavors:

1. A vented can (which has a filter on top) which only lets positive pressure out. It doesn't have a vacuum source to suck vapors from the crankcase. It's merely a route for blowby pressure to escape.

2. A sealed can (no filter) which is connected to a vacuum source to help suck vapors from the crankcase.


You have a filter AND a vacuum source. That obviously won't work. The pre-turbo vacuum is just going to be sucking in air from the engine bay, not from your crankcase.

ILcrxsi1

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Legion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

It's drastically wrong. Catch-cans come in two flavors:

1. A vented can (which has a filter on top) which only lets positive pressure out. It doesn't have a vacuum source to suck vapors from the crankcase. It's merely a route for blowby pressure to escape.

2. A sealed can (no filter) which is connected to a vacuum source to help suck vapors from the crankcase.


You have a filter AND a vacuum source. That obviously won't work. The pre-turbo vacuum is just going to be sucking in air from the engine bay, not from your crankcase.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yeah just ditch that pre turbo line vac line and run the breather off of the valve cover and the one off the block to a vented catch can. Hell I just use empty brake fluid bottles.

civic_turbo_wannabe

Okay, so is it okay if i just dont have the breather on that line?

Legion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_turbo_wannabe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Okay, so is it okay if i just dont have the breather on that line?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I personally would keep the breather and ditch the vacuum line. I would never want my turbo/charge pipes/intake manifold getting gunked up in the name of positive crankcase ventilation.

civic_turbo_wannabe

But would it get gunked up thou? would the catch can not get it all?

Legion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_turbo_wannabe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">would the catch can not get it all?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope. Catch-cans work by basically aiming the incoming air into the bottom of the can, where most of the oil and gunk congeals. Gravity and momentum are the only things that ensure that all the crap will pool at the bottom. Obviously there will be a lot of gunk that's too finely misted to separate from the air, so it gets sucked right through the can and into your turbo.

I've thought of ways to implement some sort of filter into the line, but it just seems like a losing battle. I'd rather take the slash-cut exhaust route, but even then I worry about reversion.

civic_turbo_wannabe

Well im worried about emmisions through my exhaust because i live in the UK. So i cant let it pass thru the exhaust.

civic_turbo_wannabe

Which is best? and why?

#1


#2




Modified by civic_turbo_wannabe at 4:53 PM 2/26/2008

Legion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_turbo_wannabe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Which is best? and why?</TD></TR></TABLE>


There is no "best" way. You have to decide what's more important to you.

#1.

Pro: Induces vacuum in the crankcase. Theoretically reduces crankshaft windage which can net slightly more power.
Con: Gunk gets sucked into your turbo and intake tract.


#2.

Pro: Best escape route for blow-by.
Con: Doesn't induce vacuum in the crankcase.

How much boost are you running? For low boost, method 1 is probably more beneficial than harmful, since there won't be that much blow-by to begin with. For higher boost, you'll have a lot of blow-by, so go with method 2 (and include a drain-back).

TorganFM.

#1 also reduces the effective octane rating of your fuel.

rorik

If you don't have fresh air being pulled through the crankcase by intake vacuum, your oil will be black in 500 miles. Seen this firsthand.
Don't be half assed, use a pcv valve. Just Check it to make sure it only flows air one way. Most plastic valves are garbage and fail this test, but the old metal bodied ones from the 80s hondas are good. Just clean it with brake clean first.
So replace your crappy pcv valve with a good one, and then connect wherever you're going to vent the crankcase (port on back of the block, port on valve cover, whatever) to the catch can. Out of boost, air is pulled in through the the filter on the catch can, throught the crankcase, the pcv valve, and then burned. In boost, the pcv valve closes, and the blow by now goes out through the catch can.

If you're thinking about connecting the pcv to the inlet of the turbo, open your throttle and look inside your IM. Do you really want your Entire intake tract to look like that? F no. The only reason oems do that is emissions laws, they have to.

Killer D

Ok, so I have mine routed this way:





Modified by Killer D at 4:10 PM 3/1/2008