RC000E

So, some of you may have read my delsol is done but not starting. I thought it was the management, thought it may be the injectors, blah blah blah. Well, on the third day of trying to get this to start I find the problem. Thing is...it's ahhh, not what I expected to find.

So, it's been poppin and ****, and as alot of you know that usually means something timing related, and I've kind of stuck to that. Only problem was, spark was there, timing belt was dead nuts, blah blah. So today, I am disgusted and I just think maybe I missed something.

I bought this car from some guy who had friends that helped him build an lsvtec that never ran for more than two months. Cracker sh*t all over the place, the more I get into this car. So, I buy it as a rolling chassis with the blown lsvtec in pieces.

So I rebuild, and now I'm here. Car was said to have run on the dizzy that was in it, and it was sparking, confirmed several different ways. Well, today I go back through and find this.

Please confirm for me, I'm not losing my mind here.

Sorry for the camera phone low light pics...I've highlighted whats necessary to see.

Cams gears...straight up and even


Crank pulley...dead on TDC


Just to confirm the gears weren't machined or etched backwards...here's the exhaust cam....90 degrees before the exh. valve opening....cam gears are good.


So I pop of the dizzy cap and



Do I assume that the prior owners switched the dizzy 180degrees? This dizzy isn't for a b16, is it from the sohc motor that came in the delsol and they switched the wiring order!? I knew these dudes were crackers....but wtf!

So, am I cool to switch pull the compression pin in that offset dowel on the cam engagement side of the dizzy and switch it 180 degrees? I believe inside the TDC sensor would then be off correct? That or switch the firing order accordingly for now until I get another dizzy?!?

I thought I was losing my mind...maybe I still am!?

RC000E

So, here's the deal...I put myself in the mindset of a crackass and I rotated the damn firing order of the wires....car started in .5 seconds....

ragethemachine86

lol i feel your pain. every time i have a problem with my car it turns out to be the silliest thing.

Glad you got it running.

importdude2000

im having the same problem but, on my na after taking off the turbo...
wahts the plug wire orders?

in helms it says
when looking stirght on the dis cap
3-4
1-2

imma take off the cap tomaro and check where its facing

RC000E

Yeah, that's a typical Honda order....when facing the cap, starting at the bottom left and going in a clockwise diretion it's 1-3-4-2, 1 being by the timing belt.

3 4
1 2

Since these dudes used a dizzy off of a z6, it inverted it and made it 180 out. So now my plug wires are like this, and the cars runs perfectly.

2 1
4 3

nihad

iTrader: (2)

hey so u can use a sohc dizzy on a dohc

RC000E

Yep...looks that way...just gotta flip the wiring order like I did.

I'm personally gonna get a B16 dizzy, but for now, as long at it doesn't leak and holds timing I'll hold off. Funds are little tight for me right now, so anything I can spare I will spare.

sewell94

Good for you, you could make the firing order correct by swapping the piece that actually goes into the cam 180 degrees, that would put your firing order correct, maybe thats what they did wrong in the first place.

CoreyR

JaredKaragen

You can't always do it by the book when it comes ot the ign... because sometimes people take thet little end off the dizzy, and put it on backwards.

*Boostwerks*

huh. I thought all honda 4cyls had the same firing order? you sure the rotor wasn't just installed backasswards. My D16A6 had the same firing order as my OBD1 GSR. I wouldn't think the Z6 dizzy would be any different in terms of firing order.

UNKNOWN_MEMBER

iTrader: (3)

all honda dizzys should be the same. that dizzy is hacked. on the cam side of th dizzy there's a pin that goes through the thing that hooks onto the cam. remove that pin, rotate the thing that hooks onto the cam 180 degrees, and run the stock honda firing order. taaa daaaa!

*Boostwerks*

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by UNKNOWN_MEMBER &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">all honda dizzys should be the same. that dizzy is hacked. on the cam side of th dizzy there's a pin that goes through the thing that hooks onto the cam. remove that pin, rotate the thing that hooks onto the cam 180 degrees, and run the stock honda firing order. taaa daaaa! </TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh yeah! I forgot about that pin lol. I had to do the same thing to a distro king distro one time.

RC000E

The dizzy isn't hacked, it's off of a Z6 (the delsol is an si, so it's likely the OE dizzy). If you look at the Z6 dizzy, the flat spot faces towards the ground. They took the Z6 dizzy, cut an ear off, and flipped it so the flat spot was facing up like a typical b16 dizzy. By doing that, they put the #1 on the top right, not the bottom left (when facing the dizzy).

I could pull the compression pin or I could run the firing order modified...doesn't matter.

For those of you thinking its hacked...the reason I know it isn't is, crack *** hacker ricers don't think of things that complicated. Cutting ears off and flipping it around is much more typical and likely.

a1320honda

It might be a D dizzy, but the offset ears that sink into the cam are off a B series as the B and D are different sizes, the D being smaller. So ill gaurantee what happened was they got the key'd piece off a B dizzy and put it on the D and installed it 180* off. Just pull the circular clip off, pull the pin, and flip it 180*, or leave it, if it works, who gives a ****.

HiProfile

Whats funny is a non-vtec sohc dizzy has that rotor & sensor thing rotated 180* already. There was a thread on pgmfi.org or d-series.org wondering about that differance & such.

The obd1 dizzies between the b's and d's should have the same sensors inside, and obviously can run the same ecus, so as long as everything electrically 'lines up', it will work.

Even so, even I wouldn't run a 'built' motor with a hacked distributor.

RC000E

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by a1320honda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It might be a D dizzy, but the offset ears that sink into the cam are off a B series as the B and D are different sizes, the D being smaller. So ill gaurantee what happened was they got the key'd piece off a B dizzy and put it on the D and installed it 180* off. Just pull the circular clip off, pull the pin, and flip it 180*, or leave it, if it works, who gives a ****.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Calm down brother....

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whats funny is a non-vtec sohc dizzy has that rotor & sensor thing rotated 180* already. There was a thread on pgmfi.org or d-series.org wondering about that differance & such.

The obd1 dizzies between the b's and d's should have the same sensors inside, and obviously can run the same ecus, so as long as everything electrically 'lines up', it will work.

Even so, even I wouldn't run a 'built' motor with a hacked distributor. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree with you 110%...I don't run or build hacked up ****. I went through the first round of heat cycling, checking for leaks, etc. today. Got the car to op. temp. and checked timing...dead ***** at 16 degrees. So it's doing what it needs to do, but the problem I have is the hacked off ears and lacking of bolt hole alignment.

I am short on funds because I have some bills to take care of, so for now I think I am gonna hack the second non aligned ear,TIG it to fit, then flip the offset thing that engages the cam so I can have a normal firing order.

Just thought I'd share something that was pretty cracker in case anyone comes across anything similar. I solved the issue and have moved on, so attacks and whatnot are certainly unnecessary. Not saying anyone did that thus far, but I can sense some attitudes and just wanna squash all that.

It's all good, the car is purring at 810rpm's, so we're in business.

Chris Tune

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by a1320honda &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It might be a D dizzy, but the offset ears that sink into the cam are off a B series as the B and D are different sizes, the D being smaller. So ill gaurantee what happened was they got the key'd piece off a B dizzy and put it on the D and installed it 180* off. Just pull the circular clip off, pull the pin, and flip it 180*, or leave it, if it works, who gives a ****.</TD></TR></TABLE>


do that really... it was just installed ASSwards... (backwards)

JaredKaragen

agreed, plus, with it flipped, it makes for better plugwire arrangement, 2 off to each side, and you don't get the 2 center ones to cross over.

Also: The VTEC and non VTEC dizzys have different mounting points; bolt spacing that is.

DaveF

its been awhile, but in the past ive used sohc distributer internals in a dohc housing, i remember something about the actual shaft being a bit differant from sohc to dohc. i dont know if the rotor is a bit off, or the trigger wheels mounted on the shaft, but there are definitly differances.

im actually suprised to see that, the car runs in that configuration