Vtec92Civic

I tried creating a basemap from scratch, and it seems no matter what I do the car just will not start. it turns over, and it started with the very first chip that I had burnt tonight, but I can't get the car to start anymore.

I got:

B18a1
Eagle Rods
Custom pistons (9:1)
Block Guard
7psi
550cc Injectors

I can't seem to get it to run at all . . . I am also running a chipped p28 ecu as well if that makes any difference. Can anyone help me atleast get my car started? I also have PLX 300 Wideband as well

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks . . . .

Boosted Chemist

iTrader: (1)

what bin did u start with, can u post your bin, did u try to reburn it, is the chip in the right direction?

civickiller

if everything physically is ok. try to add some fuel in the first column around the idle rpm

Burke

what are you numbers in the first column. for my 450's, i need like 20-30's in the first column and 40-60 in the next. i have a flat a/f or 15.0-15.5 during idle in closed loop.
try bumping up your valves inteh first two clumns by like 10 percent and see what happens.
good luck

Joseph Davis

I don't see what idle fuel values has to do with startup. He'd catch when cranking, but the engine wouldn't idle would be his problem if the idle fuel values were junk.

A generic recurve for 550's, without enabling any of the cold/main/tps enrichment settings, should get you up and running. Not running ideal, but it should run and you should be able to tune from it. Don't fool with those enrich settings, btw, until a little later down the road.

I suspect you've flooded your engine with fuel - plugs definitely need to be removed + dried out, if not replaced. The fuel values your ECU looks at when cranking are in the 0-500 rpm range right at atmospheric pressure... engines don't develop any vacuum to speak of until they've fired up. Dropping the fuel in that range from ~200 down to 130-ish might be an idea.

Since converting to 16 bit fuel maps for increased resolution, the OEM 8 bit fuel values that transfer over run... a bit different. The StockGSR.bin, for example, idles in the low 10.X:1 AFRs, and stumbles at part and wide open throttle from even richer mixtures... tossing an injector recurve in on top of a mistuned stock .bin is just confusing things.

Vtec92Civic

so what would everyones best suggestion be for me to get my car up and started? Atleast if I get the car started I can then start tuning, but as of now she won't start, just crank over.

Like I mentioned I got her started on the very first bin I burned which was a bin from someone running 450's I just took out 10% fuel through the entire vacuum portion and she fired up, but idled like ****, so I figure she's running rich since that was what my wideband was reading, as soon as I took out fuel from that point on she neevr started back up for the rest of the night.

Hopefully since it is now day time I can get this sorted out so I have a car to drive. I had a looooooong *** walk to a friends house at 1:30am

Any and all help/suggestions are welcome.

So the higher the #'s from what I read in the colums means the more fuel, correct? I have tried making a basemap from scratch a few times but that did not seem to help at all. I tried 2 different ecu's that I have chipped for uberdata and that did help a little. One ecu I guess was chipped a little wrong.

Someone help me get my car started . . . .

AIM:vtec92civic

5STAR3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vtec92Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
So the higher the #'s from what I read in the colums means the more fuel, correct? I have tried making a basemap from scratch a few times but that did not seem to help at all. I tried 2 different ecu's that I have chipped for uberdata and that did help a little. One ecu I guess was chipped a little wrong.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

i hope by "scratch" you mean using their template. because it is very straight forward and simple to make a base map, and not to be a dick, but if you cant do that then i would trust you doing anything with uberdata. one of the reasons i have this suspicion is because you said the only one that started the car was someone else's map that you used.

post up your bin so we can take a look at it, and do the same on the uberdata site.

phatrick2332

lean it out, when i tuned with turboEDIT, which is basically the same as Uber, i had to lean my idle out almost 50% just to get the car to start.

5STAR3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by phatrick2332 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lean it out, when i tuned with turboEDIT, which is basically the same as Uber, i had to lean my idle out almost 50% just to get the car to start.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i dissagree.....

leaning it out is a bad idea. just make a basemap like they tell you to in the uber site and your car will start fine.

Vtec92Civic

hey in relation to the bin being from skratch I mean doing exactly what was posted on the uberdata site . . . the "sticky" I did everything correctly, and had my friend even try and we both got the samething and the car did not fire up, so I know that I did it right.

The thing is I took someones tuned LS map using 450cc injectors and just took away 10% of fuel from the entire vacuum section and the car started . . . . granted it idled like ****, but it still started up.

This morning before I could make it to my friends house he wired up my stock injectors and put back my stock ecu and the car still will not start.

Could it be that we foulded out the spark plugs completely?


**** we made several basemaps using the "STOCK LSMAP" that came with uberdata and the car will not start at all*** it cranks over but nothing more. I will post up a link to the only map that got my car started:

http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/3...iles/

this is a LS motor running 450cc injectors with a t3/t4 running either 7psi or 9psi.

I can send or post up some of the basemaps that I created later when I get to my friends computer. If anyone wants to make me a basemap for:

LS Motor, T3/T4 Turbo, 550cc Injectors by all means please do and send it to me: vtec92civic@juno.com and let me try that out.

Thanks for all the help

Joseph Davis

LS with stock ECU on stock fuel maps will start up with 450cc and idle very roughly. It's hard to rev past 2500 rpm due to all the fuel, and I doubt the plugs would last long, but I've done it in the past A) as an experiment and B) to move my car ten feet in an emergency.

I repeat, your plugs are dead. Raw gas - and a couple dozen other things - can kill them in short order. Change them.

liquidxEG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS with stock ECU on stock fuel maps will start up with 450cc and idle very roughly. It's hard to rev past 2500 rpm due to all the fuel, and I doubt the plugs would last long, but I've done it in the past A) as an experiment and B) to move my car ten feet in an emergency.

I repeat, your plugs are dead. Raw gas - and a couple dozen other things - can kill them in short order. Change them.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Plugs are *** cheap anyway, might as well keep a few extra sets handy. My new set lasted about 15 minutes when my ZIF failed and i went limp with 450's on the highway

Vtec92Civic

yeah just got some ngk's they were like $10 or $11 I am off to like walmart to get some junk plugs to tune off of and then drop the ngk's in after I get the car running a little better. There was a lot of fuel floating around the spark plug so I guess I was running way to pig rich and that just messed things up lastnight, so off to try again. Any tuning tips before we do the basemap or before we begin to start the car would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again guys.

Vtec92Civic

well the car is up and running everyone, but now I am having some other small dilemas. I was boosting and all was good, but after I turned the car and went to get food, came back out and drove it started running lean and I mean lean out of boost durring normal driving. Right now it usually runs about 14.5:1 off of boost in just vacuum, but it was running lean, so we went right back to my friends, he turned off the car let it sit and turned it back on and the car went back to normal . . . . anyone have a clue what happened there? It's like the ECU forgot what the settings were for a little bit there. This was on uberdata 1.7

Thanks

Joseph Davis

Don't use 1.7, it's an already forgotten about beta. Retune with 1.70.

$10-11 for NGKs makes me think you're buying platinums. Don't. Run the good steel electrode NGKs... $6-7

blundar

Uberdata's cold start is still broken as of 1.70. Remember this when you are tuning - you have to let the car warm up first!!!!

Vtec92Civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't use 1.7, it's an already forgotten about beta. Retune with 1.70.

$10-11 for NGKs makes me think you're buying platinums. Don't. Run the good steel electrode NGKs... $6-7</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah they came in a silver box, I believe they were the platinums . . . . are those bad?


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Uberdata's cold start is still broken as of 1.70. Remember this when you are tuning - you have to let the car warm up first!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

As far as the cold start would you guys recommend that I re-tune in maybe 1.6 that is a known good version of uberdata? I just kinda find it a little strange that when I had the stock ecu in with the stock injectors and the wideband it was never lean even at start up . . . only when you let off the gas I believe it said lean, and then switched to air like it should. I just want to make sure that I am doing everything correct. We had datalogging working for a little while which helped us out, and then all of a sudden it decided to stop working so we were forced to just use the wideband, my boost/vacuum gauge, and the tach, and notepad to make notes of what was lean and what was to rich.

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blundar &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Uberdata's cold start is still broken as of 1.70. Remember this when you are tuning - you have to let the car warm up first!!!!</TD></TR></TABLE>

In my experience, cold start is mislabelled as main enrich... I have it set to 40 to cold idle Trav-***'s RC1100cc. With the normal 450/550, I don't even bother touching it except to tweak it later; will start up fine untouched.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vtec92Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah they came in a silver box, I believe they were the platinums . . . . are those bad?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Platinums are a hotter burning plug. They are designed like that so they self-clean, and last longer in stock engines. In forced induction/nitrous applications, the tiny pinhead of platinum at the tip of the ceramic makes a great hot spot for preignition and knock propigation. Always handy when you hate your engine and wish it would blow up!

I repeat... if you're using 1.7, upgrade to 1.70. Screw 1.6x

liquidxEG

Don't know if you have these in your area, but I just got 12 NGK BKR7E's for 16.25 @ express auto parts last week.

1.6 pisses me off, because there's tons of different versions and tweaks floating around you never know what versions are really what, expecially since the naming is so colorful and there's no changelog (1.6w00tw00t, is different from 1.6666 how again? ). the newest 1.7 (not the old Beta) should be alright, and best to use since bignig and teh blackanese wonder havent fucked up all the names for the new versions *yet* so you know it's up to date.

Vtec92Civic

thabnks guys i'll look into that . . . . now I got another issue trying to figure out if my blades are scraping when my turbo spools.

#1 it sounds like a owl or a wolf when it starts to spool
#2 I hear a weird sound like metal to metal at certain rpms and I know it's not my motor

I checked the turbo and it spins fine it's only 20 miles old, has no shaft play.

Could it be un-balanced?

I would assume if the blades scraped at the rpm's the turbo spools at the blades would maybe chip or get dull but I see none of that. I need to take the turbo off to get a better look thgough.

This was baught through

TURBO CALCULATOR my friend reffered me to them but they blow. The customer service they gives eats a big one

Joseph Davis

Newest 1.7 = junk. 1.70 pls. There is a difference - same stupid naming convention as the 1.6x clusterfuck.

Vtec92Civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Newest 1.7 = junk. 1.70 pls. There is a difference - same stupid naming convention as the 1.6x clusterfuck.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds good to me