Turbo set-up critique!

 
Old 06-09-2010, 09:12 PM
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Default Turbo set-up critique!

Looking for some info, advice, and/or critique of the set-up I have in mind. I have already started collecting parts and I'd like to know if I'm going in the right direction or not.

The motor is (or is supposed to be) a poor man's type r. I am going boost. The engine will be going into my Integra which I am building as my autocross/fun car. I am looking to get between 300-400whp. I would like to know if there will be any issues with reliability and practicality in regards to my goals with the set-up I want to run.

Head:
B16A
stock valvetrain
ITR or CTR cams
Adjustable cam gears

B18C1 block
bored to 81.5mm
stock sleeves
ITR rods
CP 9:1 compression pistons
GSR crank
Golden Eagle block guard

As for the turbo set-up, this list is entirely tentative but it is the basic gist of what I'll be going with:
GT28rs
Ebay intercooler
2.5" intercooler piping
50mm blow off valve
some type of tubular manifold
Tial 44mm wastegate
3" downpipe going into 3" exhaust

Fuel:
750cc injectors
Walbro 255lph
OEM lines
OEM regulator

Other parts:
ARP head studs
ARP rod bolts
OEM distributor
NGK plugs and wires
Stage 3 clutch and ~7.5lb flywheel
Golden Eagle vacuum block with nylon fittings
OEM oil pan

Again, what I'm asking is for any info/advice/critique on my set-up in regards to its reliability and practicality relating to the ultimate goal of the car (autocross+funnnn).

Some things I have been contemplating:
Manual boost controller. Advantages and disadvantages over an electronic one?

Moroso oil pan. Advantages/disadvantages over OEM unit?

Using an LS crank in the GSR block. I have a B20 crank laying around and was tossing around the idea of using that instead of the GSR crank, running LS rods and boring the block to 84mm. Advantages/disadvantages over simply using the GSR crank?

Upgrading the valvetrain. I've read I only really need to upgrade the springs and retainers with what I'm going with. Yes or no?

Wow, long post, lots of questions. Thanks for the help, guys!
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Old 06-10-2010, 03:22 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Your not going to be able to use use CTR/ITR cams without a upgraded valvetrain. At the least your going to need dual springs otherwise your gonna pound your valves to death.

that turbo might be great for autocross but its probably gonna max out early and power start to drop off as you hit redline.

i personally love my greddy profec electronic boost controller because i basically have three boost settings. Run off the spring or low/high boost off the controller. Its great since for everyday driving where its impractical to boost all the time
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

any reason for not going with aftermarket rods? it seems silly to do just pistons.

i would not bother with the block guard if you didn't put it in already.

you can't bore stock sleeves to 84mm. its up to you if you want to run the ls/b20 crank.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

I would agree with the above with the emphasis on the turbocharger. If you want to autox and street a turbo car, the GT28RS is good for both, to a limit of about 320whp. If you want 400whp, then your concentration is a bit more street and less autox and circuit. So you need to pick whether or not the response is more important (staying with the GT28RS) or the power level (400whp). It's going to be hard getting both with that turbo setup.

If you do stay GT28RS, stay with a 38mm MVS wastegate.
B20/LS crank would be fantastic for both purposes as it creates a little more midrange torque in the lower rpm band, which is where you need it in autox and circuit.

I would use the Greddy Profec B for the reasons listed above.

The Moroso pan has baffles for autox, but my situate the return line for the turbo in a weird spot that my be detrimental depending upon the manifold you use (no "ramhorns" are needed with your purpose). JHPUSA does have OEM oil pans with baffles in them to do a similar job, and you can place the return flange in its correct space.
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Old 06-10-2010, 05:57 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

I'm not looking to make huge hp numbers. 320whp would be fine with me. However, do you have any recommendations for another turbo that would be good for autox but make bigger numbers? What I want out of the turbo is good response and as little lag as possible.

As for the rods, what I'm basing my set-up on is this site: http://articles.evans-tuning.com/200...rt-charts/#300
I think ITR rods would be adequate, as I'm not looking to go above 400whp, or even ~380. For the upgraded valvetrain, would it be a waste to invest in upgraded valves or can I just stick with upgraded springs and keep the stock valves?

Any reason as to why I shouldn't use the block guard?
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:09 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

There is no such thing as a good autox turbo that makes "big" numbers more than that. A turbo can only do so much. From what it sounds like, the GT2860RS or GT2871R would be your answer. the GT2871R has a little more top end to it to make a good 380whp.

Also, for your purposes, NO NEED FOR BLOCK GUARD. Keep it simple by not adding possible additional cooling issues to your engine. Don't think to use it, "just because it is there".
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:27 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Good advice. The 38mm MVS gate would be a good choice and why not 1000cc injectors? They cost the same and idle the same as 750s but will give you room to grow in the future if needed. Do not go with ITR rods, these will clearly be your limiting factor. With how much you're spending already it's well worth the extra couple hundred for eagles. The adjustable cam gears are not very necessary, people make 800whp on stock gsr cams and gears. Spend the gear money on rods, trust me you'll be happy you did. I'd go with a competition stage 5 (sprung). Again, same cost as a stage three with similar drivability but room to grow. Great street feel! Ive ran mine for 6 years with no problems. I started at 380whp, now at 440 and hoping for 500 next week. IMO that flywheel's a lil light too
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:32 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Originally Posted by E85B18 View Post
Good advice. The 38mm MVS gate would be a good choice and why not 1000cc injectors? They cost the same and idle the same as 750s but will give you room to grow in the future if needed. Do not go with ITR rods, these will clearly be your limiting factor. With how much you're spending already it's well worth the extra couple hundred for eagles. The adjustable cam gears are not very necessary, people make 800whp on stock gsr cams and gears. Spend the gear money on rods, trust me you'll be happy you did. I'd go with a competition stage 5 (sprung). Again, same cost as a stage three with similar drivability but room to grow. Great street feel! Ive ran mine for 6 years with no problems. I started at 380whp, now at 440 and hoping for 500 next week. IMO that flywheel's a lil light too
exactly what I was thinking..

injectors, rods, and clutch... also the upgrade valvetrain, as mentioned earlier...
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:33 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Thanks guys! When I say big, I don't mean over 400hp lol. Sorry for the confusion. I meant big in regards to my goals, so 380 would be "big." So stay away from the block guard to avoid cooling problems?

I did not know that about the 1000cc injectors. With tuning, I assume I can run them just like I would 750cc injectors, but still have the availability to upgrade if I decide to go with a bigger turbo or run more boost? I also did not know that a stage 5 had similar feel with a stage 3.

Can I keep my stock valves but just upgrade the springs and retainers if I run the ITR cams? Also, what kind of crank pulley should I use? I have an Unorthodox one that is really light but a friend of mine told me that I shouldn't use it with a turbo application.
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Old 06-10-2010, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

I'm also going with OEM bearings in the block.
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Old 06-10-2010, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Stick with the OEM crank pulley, and spend the extra money on the Eagle rods. stock valves are fine if you want to just use the upgraded retainers and valvesprings.
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Old 06-11-2010, 05:46 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Will do, thanks I'll post up an updated set-up later. Should be better!
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Old 06-27-2010, 09:23 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Hey, guys, still doing research on a more finalized set-up.

Question: is it fine to use OEM itr springs and retainers if i'm gonna go with itr or ctr cams? I found people selling brian crower springs and retainers and itr springs and retainers. I feel that I can save some money while still have efficient parts if I go with the OEM stuff. I'm just unsure if I really need the stronger brian crower stuff (I'm assuming it would be stronger than the itr springs/retainers).
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Old 06-27-2010, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

If youre going to be in there replacing the pistons do the rods and save yourself the headache of having to do it in the future.

Moroso oil pan is nice. I have one that im currently using with my log manifold, and the return line is good.
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Originally Posted by AlexDphoto View Post
If youre going to be in there replacing the pistons do the rods and save yourself the headache of having to do it in the future.

Moroso oil pan is nice. I have one that im currently using with my log manifold, and the return line is good.
I'm going with eagle forged rods. I'm on the fence about the moroso oil pan.
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

ITR valvetrain would be fine for 8400rpms on ITR/CTR camshafts. Unless there is a real need to go higher than that for your needs, its not necessary to do full valvetrain, but it is nice insurance to have in case the cylinder head is already apart.
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Old 06-27-2010, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Originally Posted by cant-think-of-a-name View Post
I'm going with eagle forged rods. I'm on the fence about the moroso oil pan.
My opinion on the moroso pan still stays. I like it, it was inexpensive, and did its job while i autocrossed the **** out of my turbo gsr. It also already had the bung for my oil temp sensor as well.

I picked it up for 145 i believe. good deal for a baffled pan. Ill also add i went with the steel one because my car sits low and i didnt want to demolish an aluminum one.
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
ITR valvetrain would be fine for 8400rpms on ITR/CTR camshafts. Unless there is a real need to go higher than that for your needs, its not necessary to do full valvetrain, but it is nice insurance to have in case the cylinder head is already apart.
As for now, I don't have much need to go past 8400rpm. If I do I'll upgrade later down the line. So the ITR stuff should fine then.

Originally Posted by AlexDphoto View Post
My opinion on the moroso pan still stays. I like it, it was inexpensive, and did its job while i autocrossed the **** out of my turbo gsr. It also already had the bung for my oil temp sensor as well.

I picked it up for 145 i believe. good deal for a baffled pan. Ill also add i went with the steel one because my car sits low and i didnt want to demolish an aluminum one.
Would you mind telling me where you got yours from?
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Modernhonda
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

New tentative motor set-up:

Head:
B16A
ITR/CTR cams
ITR springs and retainers
B16 valves
on the fence about port and polish
not sure about intake mani yet, any suggestions? I have an ITR one i might just use

Block:
B18c1
bored to 81.5 mm
CP 9:1 compression ratio pistons
Eagle H beam rods
on the fence about using a gsr or b20 crank (have both at hand)
probably will pick up a baffled oil pan
ARP head studs and rod bolts

Transmission:
GSR with LS 5th gear
Quiafe LSD
Stage 5 clutch
got a Clutchmasters flywheel in the garage, not sure of the weight

Turbo:
GT2871r or similar
ebay intercooler
2.5 in piping
tubular manifold, probably a ramhorn or top mount type
38mm wastegate
50mm blow off valve
~3 in down pipe to exhaust

Fuel:
not sure of injector size yet, don't wanna go too big and lose efficiency
Walbro 255
Other stuff, OEM

Engine management:
NetTune RTP
Some sort of wideband
possibly a Greddy Profec B

All bearings, gaskets, and belts will be Honda.

This will be updated with more research, especially on fuel.
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Old 06-30-2010, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Originally Posted by cant-think-of-a-name View Post
CP 9:1 compression ratio pistons


This will be updated with more research, especially on fuel.
Good work upgrading your rods. If you're going to run E85 up your compression. I have 9.4:1 and I'm happy but if I could go back I'd run 10:1
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:21 AM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

E85 FTW!
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Originally Posted by E85B18 View Post
Good work upgrading your rods. If you're going to run E85 up your compression. I have 9.4:1 and I'm happy but if I could go back I'd run 10:1
I think I'm just gonna run 93. If I decide to run E85 I will def up the compression though.
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Old 06-30-2010, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

im on pump and 10:1 at the moment, ill switch to E85 after my roadtrip though. i love the smell haha
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Old 06-30-2010, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Turbo set-up critique!

Originally Posted by cant-think-of-a-name View Post
I think I'm just gonna run 93. If I decide to run E85 I will def up the compression though.

Make it best from the start... 9.4 and 9.0:1 are okay on 93. Do it right the first time. 9:0 is too low. Ive wasted 20K$ redoing things. If you can run E85 do it. Go 9.4:1 at the least or you will regret it
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