Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
#276
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
thats on 3rods. I will make sure the machine shop looks at everything and they will also do a sonic clean while it is there. then i will make sure that i put a pipe cleaner into each port as a double check. I know forsure that the oil pickup tube and pump were new so where else should i check for blockage??
Found the bearings i would need too. just .25 oversized acl ones.
I went through and measured the all of the main and rod journals on the crank in multiple spots and wrote them down. Now I will do the rods when they come in and if need be, have the shop match them to the crank.
All of the mains are between 54.740 and 54.730 most falling at 54.735 (10 measurements total)
All of the rods are between 44.725 and 44.736 with most falling at 44.73
Is a PTW of .005" too much for these motors (Aries pistons)??
Found the bearings i would need too. just .25 oversized acl ones.
I went through and measured the all of the main and rod journals on the crank in multiple spots and wrote them down. Now I will do the rods when they come in and if need be, have the shop match them to the crank.
All of the mains are between 54.740 and 54.730 most falling at 54.735 (10 measurements total)
All of the rods are between 44.725 and 44.736 with most falling at 44.73
Is a PTW of .005" too much for these motors (Aries pistons)??
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
OK so the machine shop is said that cylinder is pretty much toast and they would need to sleeve it. However, i can get another block.
The new issue i am seeing is that i may need to sleeve all of them anyway even with another block. The pistons I have area all measuring 3.1830in which puts the piston on the very low slide of the tolerance. If the bores are at spec (honda clearly doesn't know how to covert mm to in the service manual 81.00mm is not 3.183in so this makes things even more difficult) then I could be hosed if the block is even slightly lager, assuming a ptw of .004", and the way it sounds is the shop will want to bore it regardless to make sure it is straight. In that case I would either need new sleeves or new pistons even though these only have 20 miles on them.
maybe I should start an engine build thread?
The new issue i am seeing is that i may need to sleeve all of them anyway even with another block. The pistons I have area all measuring 3.1830in which puts the piston on the very low slide of the tolerance. If the bores are at spec (honda clearly doesn't know how to covert mm to in the service manual 81.00mm is not 3.183in so this makes things even more difficult) then I could be hosed if the block is even slightly lager, assuming a ptw of .004", and the way it sounds is the shop will want to bore it regardless to make sure it is straight. In that case I would either need new sleeves or new pistons even though these only have 20 miles on them.
maybe I should start an engine build thread?
#278
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Just get an LS block, rebuild if necessary and call it a day........
so many people have recommended this throughout this thread, it will have more displacement then that 1.6 ever will
so many people have recommended this throughout this thread, it will have more displacement then that 1.6 ever will
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
At what point is a sleeved block necessary? is it a psi thing? I assume pushing this turbo near 400hp will create a lot of heat need a lot of boost pressure to do so.
#281
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
There are drag setups around that are making 5-600hp on stock sleeves. Having had the results you have had I think it would be cheaper in the long run to simply have a reputable company send you a built short or long block.
#282
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
I would say anything over 500 HP is about when you go sleeves, I personally wouldnt go above 450 on stock sleeves I just like to be safe. im at 407 with GE block guard no problems
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...s-ect-3112523/
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
right now I am thinking i am going to just focus on building this b16 with a reliable 300whp (which means doing it myself). Then i can start working on the b18 and make that more of the power monster.
#285
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
there you go, sounds like a solid plan
just wonder how much over 300hp you really need for your purpose, given your chasis is way lighter then the rest of us here
just wonder how much over 300hp you really need for your purpose, given your chasis is way lighter then the rest of us here
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
But I really don't understand the question. Do you think their should be a limit on a cars power to weight ratio for some reason?
#287
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Frank, the owner, overhauled it after being hit by a Porsche and made it 400lbs lighter with a body/chassis overhaul and ditched the twin charged setup for a single turbo, same power. He has a handful of videos of it on YouTube, just search 'rs211'
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
No, you're not even close to one. Watch the video of 'the world's fastest lotus - tuned' on YouTube if you want a good example. Was 680whp 2200lbs lotus names the robin exige.
Frank, the owner, overhauled it after being hit by a Porsche and made it 400lbs lighter with a body/chassis overhaul and ditched the twin charged setup for a single turbo, same power. He has a handful of videos of it on YouTube, just search 'rs211'
Frank, the owner, overhauled it after being hit by a Porsche and made it 400lbs lighter with a body/chassis overhaul and ditched the twin charged setup for a single turbo, same power. He has a handful of videos of it on YouTube, just search 'rs211'
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
it looks like the other b16 block has its bores at Ø81.2mm which would give me a ptw of .0145"... too much. Now I am back to spending $500+ on new pistons or sleeves to fix the block i have.
But wait... that would be .0145" on the diameter so the pt would actually be .00725" correct? Still too much but maybe i can just fix the one sleeve in my current block and still be ok. I need a dial bore gage to be sure though.
But wait... that would be .0145" on the diameter so the pt would actually be .00725" correct? Still too much but maybe i can just fix the one sleeve in my current block and still be ok. I need a dial bore gage to be sure though.
#290
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
No, you're not even close to one. Watch the video of 'the world's fastest lotus - tuned' on YouTube if you want a good example. Was 680whp 2200lbs lotus names the robin exige.
Frank, the owner, overhauled it after being hit by a Porsche and made it 400lbs lighter with a body/chassis overhaul and ditched the twin charged setup for a single turbo, same power. He has a handful of videos of it on YouTube, just search 'rs211'
Frank, the owner, overhauled it after being hit by a Porsche and made it 400lbs lighter with a body/chassis overhaul and ditched the twin charged setup for a single turbo, same power. He has a handful of videos of it on YouTube, just search 'rs211'
if i remember correctly you are trying to beat the current track record holder? whats his cars weight/HP compared to yours?
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Without getting into a full blown car analysis, the car's power cant overcome suspension design yet to some extent. basically I have always been a fan of making a lot of power and then pulling it back to match the driver and or balance the car. 400whp would probably be way too much but somewhere around 350whp would work nicely (and probably too much at the beginning)
and yes I agree with your statement on power delivery, personally I like to analyze the area under the torque curve to really understand how the car will behave but most people can relate to hp so we talk in hp. this also happens to be the reason I am trying to not have a big turbo with huge jump in the torque curve late in the power band, additionally this is why my new transmission is much better than the old one, and the same reason why I think the b18 in this car would only work with the higher Rev limit like the b16.
#292
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Well there you go you answered your own question..... stock sleeves it is xD
Given your statement you have a pretty good idea of what your particular car needs for the given purpose. You analyzed it far better then I ever could 400 HP just sounded way to high from my experience at that power level in a much heavier car.
Not sure why your so into the b16 tho look at the tittle of this thread flat torque curve and using a b16....those two statements dont work well together. I still think a B18 would be much better ....more torque throughout the entire rev range and also better spool times from any turbo
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Not sure why your so into the b16 tho look at the tittle of this thread flat torque curve and using a b16....those two statements dont work well together. I still think a B18 would be much better ....more torque throughout the entire rev range and also better spool times from any turbo
I also agree that the b18/vtec will be better but I will need a new block, pistons, rods, main bolts, bearings and a vtec conversion kit to get that one running vs a block and bearings for the b16. I want one as a backup so the plan is to build both. I may actually sleeve the b18 durring its build up to make it a 2liter. that will cost more than I want to spend right now.
hard to beat any track time if I have no tuning time on the track because of blown engines!
#294
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
preaching to the choir on sleeving a b18. I would love to turn one of my gsr blocks into a 2.0 via sleeving and LS crank just dont feel like putting down that kind of money
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
#296
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Gotcha....well really sounds like your definetly headed in the right direction and I can understand costs being an issue it always is. I still think b18 is worth it in the long run and you dont need to necessarily sleeve it unless you want increased displacement. bigest factor for you I think is getting it built right the first time, may want to consider sending it out for building process.......ie CSS, laskey racing ETC
My piston and rod B18c1 comes out to 1819cc with 81.5mm pistons, I think LS crank adds about 40cc's or so depending on **bore size
My piston and rod B18c1 comes out to 1819cc with 81.5mm pistons, I think LS crank adds about 40cc's or so depending on **bore size
Last edited by 2kdrift; 12-01-2016 at 05:32 PM.
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
Is the PTW clearance
bore - piston diameter or (bore - piston diameter)/2??
bore - piston diameter or (bore - piston diameter)/2??
#298
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
believe its bore - piston
Ive never built a block I take it to a machine shop. but found this on another thread
Ive never built a block I take it to a machine shop. but found this on another thread
You would use a Mic to measure the skirt of the pistons and a cylinder bore gauge to meausre the exact bore. Subtract the size of the pistons from the size of the bore and you get your pistons to wall clearance. You can find a Mic and bore gauge on ebay for pretty cheap.
#299
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
<br /><br />He has peak torque just past 4k with a redline of 8k, in a car that weighs 1800lbs with shortened gears on an mr2 transmission. It's a canyon carver that goes through plenty of tight corners as well as sleepers. Your argument isn't even remotely valid.
Last edited by TheShodan; 12-01-2016 at 09:20 PM.
#300
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Re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband
keep telling yourself that, more torque earlier is always better, as far as peak HP yes a b18 does that better also