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Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Old 05-27-2016, 08:44 AM   #1
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Default Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

I see some dyno graphs out there that show the torque cure coming in earlier and remaining falter through out the rmp range.

I assume this makes the car more predictable but has is it achieved?

Mine seems to just go up
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:00 AM   #2
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

B16 (low displacement), turbos to large for the application, stock b16 cams and your altitude probably all playing a roll here.
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Old 05-27-2016, 10:26 AM   #3
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

any suggestions then?
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:00 AM   #4
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Im curious why you stopped at what looks like 7500 rpm? That motor should do 8200-8600 no problem.
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:11 AM   #5
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

i didn't... the tuner did and its not very helpful as you can see... some excuse of not waintitng to take the engine that high. I would kind of like to know how the engine behaves up there! I go to 9k all the time!

I am not having much luck finding a tuner. I need some one who can actually tune... not just create as much power as possible.
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:18 AM   #6
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

I wasn't aware of it till lightning brought it up, but you should hit up Drob and have him etune it.

Imw has by far some of the highest quality tunes and builds out there, and I've seen a ton.
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:24 AM   #7
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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I wasn't aware of it till lightning brought it up, but you should hit up Drob and have him etune it.

Imw has by far some of the highest quality tunes and builds out there, and I've seen a ton.
I am not familiar with Drob....or etuning either.
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:33 AM   #8
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

He's the (owner?) of Innovative motorworks, and is on the forums time to time usually showing off crazy builds. The shop's located in PA, but apparently he does etunes as well (not sure what limitations etc)

E tunes are pretty much done through sending datalogs, build components etc to the tuner who works with you over time to get the tune just right, without you having to actually bring it to their dyno. They modify the ignition/fuel maps etc and revise them with the data you gather for them, sent online.

Worst case scenario learn how to tune yourself :D
I haven't dabbled too much with maps yet, but I can tell you from the research and reading I've done that it isn't too difficult to get a grasp on. Lightning teg actually was the one who inspired me to learn myself, and recommended a great book that's helped me a lot. There's also plenty of info online .
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:56 AM   #9
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

i am going to head up to the tuning shop tomorrow and do a baseline pull to 9k to see what the car is actually doing.
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Old 05-27-2016, 12:49 PM   #10
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband



As you can see its a common thing with b16s. Doesnt mean its a bad thing, just give it more RPMs.

Last edited by ls joker; 05-28-2016 at 03:34 AM.
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Old 05-27-2016, 01:09 PM   #11
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

for your subject I think you need more displacement/stroke for earlier/flatter torque. Glad LSjoker posted his dyno up, check it against mine (similar HP levels and similar size turbo).....

Not bashing anyone or even bashing b16's but they do have different characteristics, b16s seem to love to rev high due to the shorter stroke and thats where they make their power

@LSTURBO ever decide what motor you will use for your next build? an overbored b16 sounds pretty sweet

B18c, Ramhorn setup @17 PSI
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Old 05-27-2016, 01:13 PM   #12
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Yeah an 84mm b16 or a b20vtec build is up in the air. Cams, a bigger exhaust, even boring it out is only gona do so much. A 84mm b16 will have the midrange of a gsr, give or take a few RPMs.

If its built good. Dont be afraid to rev them
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Old 05-27-2016, 01:50 PM   #13
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by ls joker View Post
Yeah an 84mm b16 or a b20vtec build is up in the air. Cams, a bigger exhaust, even boring it out is only gona do so much. A 84mm b16 will have the midrange of a gsr, give or take a few RPMs.

If its built good. Dont be afraid to rev them
84mm b16, rev to 10k+
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:00 PM   #14
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Just throw a piston & rod ls block in there. Simple, cheap, and you'll get the torque your after.
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:27 PM   #15
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Default Torque curve that is earlier flatter

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Originally Posted by boosted94gsr View Post
Just throw a piston & rod ls block in there. Simple, cheap, and you'll get the torque your after.
And you keep the same turbo, and put it at the better efficiency range of the GT3251

Last edited by TheShodan; 05-27-2016 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:33 PM   #16
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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And you keep the same turbo, an put it at the better efficiency range of the GT3251
Yes.

Off topic but shodan I'll be talking to you about a turbo for my next build in the near future. Something with good mid range for a GSR or ls/vtec for a fun street car, but we can keep that to pms and not clutter this thread. Just a heads up.
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:50 PM   #17
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by Geis View Post
84mm b16, rev to 10k+
Yeah I personally do rev the hell out of it... that tuner just didnt.

A new block isn't really an option since I paid quite a bit to fully build this one.
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Old 05-27-2016, 02:53 PM   #18
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by 2kdrift View Post
for your subject I think you need more displacement/stroke for earlier/flatter torque. Glad LSjoker posted his dyno up, check it against mine (similar HP levels and similar size turbo).....

Not bashing anyone or even bashing b16's but they do have different characteristics, b16s seem to love to rev high due to the shorter stroke and thats where they make their power

@LSTURBO ever decide what motor you will use for your next build? an overbored b16 sounds pretty sweet
What setup is that?!!! That would work great in my car. Quick torque, steady and near 300ftlbs. Dude you create 150 ftlbs over 1k faster than i do!

Turbo? Block? Build?
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Old 05-27-2016, 03:45 PM   #19
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by Mjalaly View Post
What setup is that?!!! That would work great in my car. Quick torque, steady and near 300ftlbs. Dude you create 150 ftlbs over 1k faster than i do!

Turbo? Block? Build?
Whos is this in regards too.

If you still have b16 cams. Thats your best and prolly cheapest start. Some ITRs or ITR "like" cams will help alot.

B16s have their purpose. And for a light chassis like what you have, i have no doubts.
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Old 05-27-2016, 03:58 PM   #20
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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What setup is that?!!! That would work great in my car. Quick torque, steady and near 300ftlbs. Dude you create 150 ftlbs over 1k faster than i do!

Turbo? Block? Build?
yeaah sorry I left the info out of that post, pretty much a cookie cutter build with a rare turbo

81.5mm b18c1, typr head, type r cams
skunk2 ultra IM
go autoworks ram horn turbo kit
Bullseye batmowheel b252 turbo @17 psi (52mm compressor - supposed to be between a gt3071 and gt3076)
ITR LSD trans 98+ with exedy lightened flywheel and stage 2 clutch


honestly its alot of torque to deal with...really had to play with my BBG to get traction in 1st-3rd. As it sits I have good traction in all gears using federal RSR tires and a 5.5LB spring

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Originally Posted by ls joker View Post
B16s have their purpose. And for a light chassis like what you have, i have no doubts.
agreed, if the road allows for it (IE dragstrip) theres no reason to ever be below 7k after first gear
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Old 05-27-2016, 04:32 PM   #21
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by Mjalaly View Post
i didn't... the tuner did and its not very helpful as you can see... some excuse of not waintitng to take the engine that high. I would kind of like to know how the engine behaves up there! I go to 9k all the time!

I am not having much luck finding a tuner. I need some one who can actually tune... not just create as much power as possible.
I was going to recommend Importsports Performance but seems that's where you got your car tuned. Interesting they didn't want to push the engine harder. Those guys have a Civic drag car that they compete with so they should be knowledgeable. They tuned my car for me and it runs good.
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Old 05-27-2016, 04:36 PM   #22
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by ls joker View Post
Whos is this in regards too.

If you still have b16 cams. Thats your best and prolly cheapest start. Some ITRs or ITR "like" cams will help alot.

B16s have their purpose. And for a light chassis like what you have, i have no doubts.
I have gsr cams. Not sure if the ls tranny is also causing low torque. Seems that I have to force my self to use 5th gear in this thing.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:00 PM   #23
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

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Originally Posted by 2kdrift View Post

81.5mm b18c1, typr head, type r cams
skunk2 ultra IM
go autoworks ram horn turbo kit
Bullseye batmowheel b252 turbo @17 psi (52mm compressor - supposed to be between a gt3071 and gt3076)
ITR LSD trans 98+ with exedy lightened flywheel and stage 2 clutch
Yeah my build is different
B16 9.4 compression
Spoolin log mani (only thing that fits)

I have a stock flywheel and intake with an ls tranny. Not sure if those make a huge difference. I am also not sure how different our turbos are.

I generally won't suffer the same traction issues with my set up (suspension, etc) as a civic would but I am sure it would be a lot for sure.

I was able to tweek some things and put the air filter right outside the chassis so that may help.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:03 PM   #24
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Default Torque curve that is earlier flatter

No wonder your car feels slow. You have an LS transmission. That is one of the worst Transmissions that you could ever have to have any type of reasonable acceleration rates.

There's an easy remedy for that without having to change to a different transmission if you don't want to, and that is to change the final drive of the LS transmission to a 4.785 from M factory.

That will change almost everything when it comes to having reliable amount of torque.

I never knew all this time and you had an LS transmission. If you got rid of that, and either use what I suggested, or get a GSR transmission, the entire car will feel completely different due to the torque multiplier of the gearing of a GSR transmission.

The turbocharger that you have is much more responsive than the BW 252. Both on the turbine wheel and compressor wheel side.

Last edited by TheShodan; 05-27-2016 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 05-27-2016, 05:06 PM   #25
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Default re: Turbo Selection Options: B16/Spoon Cross-mission Trans for Flat Torqueband

Yep, the state trooper took my gsr tranny when I went to go get my vin because it was missing the serial #. The ls was the only one I could get in a short time.
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