ClubSiRacer

Would anyone find this universal air horn usefull in a 3", 3.5" or 4" version made out of aluminum for use directly on the turbocharger inlet with a 4.5" to 6" K&N filter for "street" use or remove the filter for "race" use?

Basicly, I make the 3" now out of a high temp nylon reinforced plastic but a few people on other boards have posted intrest in larger versions and aluminum versions. I figured before I plop down the money to have them made, i'd ask here to see just how much intrest their is in each size, if any at all...

The 3" version has a slight taper and a radiused lip while a 4.5" K&N* clamps around the large end. The 3.5" and 4" version would have a larger taper and radius and fit a 6" K&N* filter. (* filter mounting flange diameter)

Edit: Yes, I am aware it is not a "full" radius. This is made for use INSIDE of an air filter for those of us who wish to use a filter for daily use yet wishes to get the full benifit of an air horn always.

IloveNewt

How does a horn benifit anything? Just curious....i always thought they were for looks.

Agtronic

If you made some smaller ones, they'd be useful for use inside of custom made large-plenum log-style intake manifolds.

Like this : (Made by "zornig" on the VWVortex).

ClubSiRacer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Agtronic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you made some smaller ones, they'd be useful for use inside of custom made large-plenum log-style intake manifolds.
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That looks very nice, and yea I could probably put some full radius ones together that were small like that. I'll have to go measure the cross section of one of my old manifolds and see what size would work best and go from there.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How does a horn benifit anything? Just curious....i always thought they were for looks.
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People have debated the benifit for a long time. Either way, I am already having one of my current design 3" air horns flow bench tested and possibly tested on an engine dyno under strict measurement conditions by an independent company. As soon as I have the results back, the numbers should speak for themself.

How this design differs from "cheep" air horns is the fact those horns are not made for use with an air filter and come in limited sizes.

Silversupragirl

Bump for a good idea

psileepR

To me it doesnt look like the taper of the lip is high enough. I thought the purpose of a velocity stack was to have a large surface area to shove air into the compressor.

i dont know if i am explaining this right, but a compressor side that is say 3" in diameter would have an air horn with a tapered diameter of 5" across.

ClubSiRacer

It isnt tapered a lot, however this version is made more for people using them on intake pipes on non-turbocharged cars where space is a premium. Using a 6" diameter version on the side of a big turbo wouldnt be a problem since most people running a big turbo have plenty of room for a big filter too. IE: The 3.5" and 4" versions will be designed with a much greater taper to them in addition to the radiused lip.

ClubSiRacer

Ok those possibly interested in a 4" T6 aluminum version, here is what I can do and some "specs" for the most part. It would cost ~$90 each and I would need at least 5 pre-paid orders to get them made. (Hey, i'm poor otherwise it wouldnt have to be that way. I cant bite off a $500 loss when nobody wants them a month later.) It would take 3-4 weeks typicaly to get them back. I can have them anodized or powder coated (only one color per order) but i cant say how good it will look and it typicaly slows the shippment by at least a week and cost would go up about $5 each. (Even though anodized or powder coated would "look" nicer.)

The 4" version would have a 4" ID mounting flange with a 92° taper for the first 1" and then 105° taper to the final radius. Total height 2.25", filter mounting flange diameter 6", turbo mounting flange diameter 4.15", 6061 T6 billet aluminum. I would offer it in the nylon plastic material at a lesser cost but i'm afraid being mounted directly on a turbocharger near a white hot manifold may cause it to possibly melt or become brittle over time. Natuarly aluminum would not have this risk.

If this sounds like something you want, PM me and i'll take a headcount of who is willing to put a preorder in and for how many. I'd need at least 5 pre-paid orders to make it worth the effort.

I'm working on the 3.5" version still if anyone has any intrest in that. It will also be based on the 6" filter opening diameter.


Modified by ClubSiRacer at 11:13 PM 2/8/2004

ClubSiRacer

It seems considering the size and amount of material both the 3.5" and 4" would take to machine, both would cost roughly the same amount. I'm also tweaking the design some to lighten it up some considering a 6" round aluminum "donut" has to be a good pound or two which wouldnt be easy to suspend off the side of a raging turbocharger.

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ClubSiRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People have debated the benifit for a long time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Huh?

Theory and Practice of Cylinder Head Modification by Vizard covered this back in the 70's with flowbench data of increases, as well as the formula for the ideal curve of an air trumpet for maximum flow. Speaking of which, I hope these guys are vaguely aware of that formula... smoothing transition will get you halfway there, but when we are talking about a gain of a percent or two at most, you should be optimizing things if you're even going to bother.

ClubSiRacer

Now where did I write that forumla down? Hmm... Yes, I was informed ahead of time the numbers involved. Actualy the smaller one really only follows that loosely as it is very limited in size. The larger units that will be made for turbocharged cars will have a much "better" formed shape/curve, mostly because I have more material and surface area to work with being as it will be designed around a 6" diameter vs 4.5" diameter.

Joseph Davis

To clarify:

I wasn't attacking you, but I was seeking clarification. Hope I didn't come off as an assmallet (I do a lot, only mean to half the time). I'm the first person to admit that in some fitments and scenarios, getting the textbook ideal configuration is completely impossible, and the next closest thing to it that you can manage is the real world ideal.

badCRX

Jason just hopes to rake in some cash off of people with turbos smaller than a T66!

ClubSiRacer

I hope to just start making some that people want.

Jeff, you should come try one of these 3" ones I make now on your setup. Unless of course you've changed it since last year.

xci_ed6

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ClubSiRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">People have debated the benifit for a long time. Either way, I am already having one of my current design 3" air horns flow bench tested and possibly tested on an engine dyno under strict measurement conditions by an independent company. As soon as I have the results back, the numbers should speak for themself.
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I made .5hp more w/ an air horn over open carb on a 4.5hp honda OHV industrial motor. Gained .1hp over that by holding the airhorn on w/ acorn nuts instead of open studs. This was an aluminum half radius air horn BTW (from recreational motorsports in CR, IA for anyone who is interested).

-Dustin

ClubSiRacer

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by krustindumm &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I made .5hp more w/ an air horn over open carb on a 4.5hp honda OHV industrial motor. Gained .1hp over that by holding the airhorn on w/ acorn nuts instead of open studs. This was an aluminum half radius air horn BTW (from recreational motorsports in CR, IA for anyone who is interested).

-Dustin</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats like a 10% power increase!

But seriously, i've done some homework on this and had it in the works for quite awhile now. I think at the very least it would help a small amount. At least as much or more than most things you can spend $45-$90 on for your car minus a nitrous refill.

Also for the person wondering about the "small" ones for making custom intake manifolds. I designed some that I still need to tweak yet that would work on either custom ITB's or in a custom manifold however "tweaking" would still be required i'm quite sure. Depending on the exact design, final cost on those would be ~$15-20 each in T6. Not bad if you want to take a stick at making your own manifold and want the benifit of internal velocity stacks to tune the length of each runner.

Also, I'm open for suggestions / ideas if someone wants something custom.

ClubSiRacer

Ok..... 4" ID versions to fit a 6" K&N filter, polished and then powder coated gloss black would be $80 shipped for the first 5 orders. After that it is $95 shipped. Wait time is roughly 4 weeks. PM me if you'd like to pre-order one. (Yes, pre-orders require pre-payment.)

badCRX

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ClubSiRacer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Jeff, you should come try one of these 3" ones I make now on your setup. Unless of course you've changed it since last year.</TD></TR></TABLE>

We'll give it a whack on the dyno some time. It will be an all new setup. So not quite sure what the intake will be, but I'm sure I'll start off with the old setup.

ClubSiRacer

For those who may be interested in the 3.5" and 4" version, here are some renderings of the 4" ID version that uses a 6" filter.



The rear is machined to remove excess material to keep it light weight yet as durable as possable.


The blue line represents the internal profile.