j0keefe21

so ive been into hondas for a while now and did my little all motor project. learned alot and had fun along the way. now i want to do a small turbo project. i currently have a perfectly good stock d16z6 motor in my garage. im only really looking for a 200 to 250whp build. these are some of my ideas for it any input would be great. thanks guys

1. ls rods from a b20 or b18 to replace the thinner z6 rods i know you need to make clearnce on block and need a kit so they fit wrist pins.

2. 2 1/4 inch exhaust piping. or should i go 2 1/2?

3. a 59300 cam from zex. should i go bigger?

4. thinking about keeping stock pistons to keep in budget. will they be ok for my power goals?

5. what stage clutch should i get? i assume stock will slip. i want to go exedy preferribly

6. i heard i shouldnt go with a gt25 bc that will max out at 220ish. maybe a gt28? or any ideas

7. is using dsm injectors really alot cheaper than going with new ones. (450cc ok?)

im really excited to start my build. got a ton of ideas floating around but just want to see if they are ok. thanks guys

95civhb

1. for the money, you can't beat the fjt rod + vitara setup...

2. go 2 1/2.. you can probably get it done with 2 1/4, but why restrict when you don't have to?

3. look into bisi cams..

4. see #1... vitara setup good up to 500hp on some builds...

5. somebody else chime in...

6. gt 28 would be nice.. quick spool and you'd be ok for higher than your goals if you want to up the boost... there are other turbos to fit your goal too, depending if you want room to grow...

7. dsm injectors will do the trick up to that yeah...

j0keefe21

thanks man no one seems to want to help. trying to search around and keep it all under 2k including tune tho

wilham320

iTrader: (1)

1. ls rods are really not worth the trouble unless you have free rods and a cheap machine shop access, any h or i beam rod is worth the extra money.

2. 2 1/4 is fine for 250... but bigger is better.

3. aftermarket cams are just headaches and a waste of money for under 350hp. use the money saved here to go towards a rod/vitara combo

4. vitara... the only way to go... see fjt distributers.

5. exedy stage one will be fine for 250 and under

6. t3 super 60, t3/t4, holset... don't get a small turbo that will be pushing hot air at 250hp.

7. dsm injectors are good... remember to use a resister box.

j0keefe21

are the resistor boxs ive seen on ebay for $20 the right things? also i really dont want much lag. when would a t3/t4 spool? will i need a cam gear if i stay stock cams?

j0keefe21

checked out fj distributors their vitara and i beam set up was a reallly great price. if im gunna do this i wanna do it right. any one know what CR that set up will produce. i know it will varry from every set up but a round about idea would be nice. thanks

Joseph Davis

1) LS rods and stock pistons are not compatible. By the time you pay to have the big ends milles 0.018-0.020" on each side, 19-->21mm wrist pin bushings made, you could have bought a set of forgings and possibly used forgings and saved a buck. LS rods only have a place attached to GX pistons (which have 21mm wristpins, no need for pin bushes) for 12.5:1 CR with quench. I've done this several times; there's a reason why Honda of North America currently has three .25mm over on one .5mm over GX piston in stock.

2) Go 2.5, but really for 200-250 you can make 2.25" work.

3) A cam is a complete waste of money for a mid 200 whp D16. Get a cam gear instead. When on the dyno set your AFRs and timing at wastegate, then slowly retard the gear for peak power (it'll also be peak all across the powerband). Proceed with your higher boost tuning from there.

4) Stock pistons are incompatible with any non-stock D16 rod combo.

5) Stock D16 clutches are weak. Grab most anything that can do 250+ wtq, feel free to go a bit bigger if the pedal effort and release on the unit is stocklike.

6) Spending GT-series money on a 250 budget whp ride makes me titter a little. Seek out a normal T3/T04E hybrid unless you have some disposable income and want to impress people with pricetag.

7) I've had really good luck with DSM 450cc, but they are getting old and I've come across a few in the last two years that had issues. If you want injectors that are newer, better, etc, look into SRT-4 injectors and get the 11mm top hat adapters + plugs that are used for the baller injector dynamics units. Hint hint: http://www.xenocron.com/uscar-inject...top-p-421.html




A couple of salient side notes; there's nothing wrong with a stock piston vs Vitaras from a quality perspective. The problem with stock pistons is they are clearanced too tightly, and D16 are very sensitive to CR. NA D16 like a LOT of compression, and turbo D16 like very little. I've tuned a rainbow assortment of D16 and every time the 7.5-7.8:1 CR Vitara (and one OEM P07 piston) setups with stock length rods are the happiest. They make power without the volatility associated with higher CR D16, the pistons do not bleed oil around the piston-wall gap, and they last forever without appreciable degradation.

Anyway, you can do 200-240-something safely on a stock bottom end with a good tune. If you have some miles on your engine (they all do at this point) you should seriously consider building an engine. And at that point, you really are just a few extra bucks spent here and there to make a lot more than 250, and you can do so reliably.

j0keefe21

yea i was saying the exact same thing to myself when i looked at the vitara set up and saw how affordable it was. i might as well sepnd a little extra cash on a larger turbo and make alot more power. now say i get a manual boost control and my car gets tuned for 300whp. if i turn the boost down for when my gf borrows the car will it hurt my engine at all bc it wasnt tuned for that level?

toolfan020

I am looking at doing something similiar with my d16z6, I checked out the Fj distributors site, they have alot of great stuff on there. I was wondering what do you think it will cost to piece everything together needed for the engine build and complete turbo setup?

My goal would be 225 - 250 Hp and I need to know what all I need aside from:

Engine Internals (Vitara Pistons, forged I beam rods, bearings, rings etc)

Charge piping/Intercooler

ramhorn or log manifold/wastegate/bov etc

injectors/intake manifold(y8)?

new clutch/flywheel and add an LSD to my tranny

Is there anything I am missing here? LMK thanks

j0keefe21

your going to need a chipped ecu, wide band 02, maybe thiink about a larger than stock exhaust, i've heard the y8 Im is better than the Z6 but idk if its worth the money really to put a y8 on your z6

toolfan020

Thanks J0k, I appreciate you filling in the blanks there, the exhaust isn't an issue, as far as the y8 IM i will ask my builder and see what he says. My only other question is would it be worth it to change out my d16z6 tranny for a d16y8 tranny (i hear they have steel shifter forks vs aluminum) or should I just keep the d16z6 tranny and rebuild it/add an obx lsd?

Oh and what do you think (rough ballpark) will it cost for everything I am trying to stay within my budget of 3k.

Thanks

j0keefe21

i've priced out all my stuff (some off craigslist) for 2k with tune. but im not touching the tranny. im pretty sure for low 200's the z6 tranny will be just fine but if you can get your hands on a y8 tranny for a good price i dont see why not.

turbo sol

don't forget to include some type of engine management.

•*chipped ECU + stand alone

i build my budget setup and would recommend going with vitaras, fjt rods would be good too, but at least get some eagles.

toolfan020

^ Hey I noticed you listed your build turbo_sol did you do anything else to the head aside from the cam? 250 whp is exactly what I want (for now)Thanks

j0keefe21

i think the combo they sell at fj with their i beams and vitaras would be cheaper than getting the vitaras then eagle rods seperately. but yea def need to tune or you wont last long. i kept up with a turbo sentra with my mini swap all bc he didnt tune it and it ran like garbage.

HiProfile

1) Don't bother with all that work, fjt or tuner toyz rods are a far better value.

2) Smaller will only hurt power, as well as spool RPM. Larger exhaust will expand your powerband both ways on a turbo car.

3) People have made 400+ with a stock Z6 im/head/cam. A decent cam is cost-effective, but do not get it if you aren't going all-out on other things like rods or pistons.

4) Stock pistons can take 250whp with a great tune, but somethign tells me you are going to pinch pennies regardless. Vitaras are the best value I think in the entire automotive history.

5) A new, real OEM clutch will make 250whp for a while, but it's unlikely it's new or actually Honda OEM. A decent clutch like an ACT or Action will last a long time, and I'd recommend only a heavy-duty pressure plate & full-face clutch. Dual diaphragm/extreme duty & ceramic puck clutchs are not necessary, not to mention NOT fun to use.

6) GT28 or GT30 variants are about all I'd use on a Honda. No matter what, the low-range power will always be pitiful from a 1.6L motor, and a GT25 will really restrict the top-end.

7) DSM 450's aren't bad, but you get what you pay for. It's best to at least get them cleaned & flow tested, since they have a history for clogging up, and siezing/failing.



The best advice I can give you - do not be super cheap, nor overspend. Get what you need and get it running good. THen you can upgrade to **** like baller-bearing turbos, custom cams, stainless exhaust, intake manifold, etc. It's very sad to see people with tricked out cars that don't run because they bought an intake manifold instead of a working distributor, for example...

j0keefe21

haha thanks for the info. i have the money to get all the right stuff i need but im trying to do it with spending whats only needed. ive decided to go forged definately. that way i wont have to worry about the bottom end. think i'll probaly go with a t3 t4 hybrid. havnt decided on a clutch yet. cant really tell what companies are good i'll def do some more searching on that subject before i buy. a shitty clutch is the worst. havnt decided on injectors yet but im leaning away from dsm and to some rebuilt ones. thanks for all your help guys ive got a way better idea on what i need now. but one question i was really interested in was if a waste gate is set for 8lbs can you boost over that with a MBC? or is the WG the maximum i can go? also if im tuned for 300whp and i turn the boost down will it hurt the motor?