SIK IN DA HED

did some tuning today... found out that my timing was retarded way too much. my friend pointed out to me that the red indicator (with black indicators on each side -2/+2) was way behind the timing indicator (black notch). so i figured... it would mean it was retarded. i wondered to myself... how could this be? it was on stock timing...

so we adjusted it alittle behind the timing indicator (black notch) and it was hard to keep it steady cause it was moving back and forth. it would advance 2, then retard 2. i dunno... thats what my friend said and i saw it doing that. i wondered if this was the result of installing the skunk2 cam gears last week. could it be possible that it got adjusted by accident when we tried to line up the cam gears (TDC).

arent there timing guns that read the ignition timing for you? because the one we used... wasnt accurate. we had to guess-timate what the timing was set on.

is it supposed to move back and forth like that? the red indicator does not stay in one place... and is constantly moving back and forth towards the black notch. how does this work? i wanted to put it back on stock timing... but if i lined up the red mark with the black mark... it would retard and advance itself... because of the fact that it wasnt steady.


[Modified by dlplayboy, 10:57 PM 8/9/2001]


[Modified by dlplayboy, 10:58 PM 8/9/2001]

LsTurbo91

What kind of timing gun did you have? adjustable or not? Installing cam gears and not lining everything up to TDC will definitely throw you off. Did you check the timing after you installed the cam gears?

SIK IN DA HED

no... we didnt get to check the timing when we installed the cam gears. we didnt have a timing light at the time. its supposedly TDC and lined right. the markers on the cam gears are side to side in the middle facing each other like it should be.

as for timing guns... arent there guns that mechanics use these days that have a digital display of the timing? it sucks having to watch the markers move back and forth. not really accurate in reading timing.

LsTurbo91

the markers shouldnt be really moving back and forth unless your moving the distributor or the rpm is going up and down. I would recheck the marks to see if the cam gears/crank pulley is lined up TDC. Do you the cam gears set at 0,0 ?

redline

you car needs to be in operating temp to set timing also. you can not fire it up and set timing!

k

SIK IN DA HED

of course i let my engine run for awhile. i raced down the street a few times... and let it run for 5 minutes... then we checked timing.

9psiLsT,

im pretty sure its TDC. the dot lookin marks on the cam gears have to face each other, rite? and when they face each other.. they are both on the inner sides of the cam gears.. and the -/+ are facing up. am i correct?

VaporTrail

hmm, what was your idle speed at? Also, did you try shorting/jumping the ecu? I prefer to use the old style timing guns vs. the new digital ones.

SIK IN DA HED

Vaportrail,

i used the old style on. its just a gun looking thing with connections to the spark plug and battery, that flashes a light.

would shorting the ecu or jumping it make a difference? i dont know what my idle timing is. how would i check that? does it have any significance to the ignition timing? my idle seems fine.

TurboInteg95

if your intake cam is set anywhere other then 0 it will affect your ignition timing.

VaporTrail

Shorting the service connnector puts the ECU in diagnostic mode. I've had better luck with setting the timing this way, the ECU does not advance or retard timing when you have the ECU this way. To short the ECU, take a paper clip and remove the two wire blue plug harnessed in a green housing from under the dash, passenger side. Insert the paper clip to complete the circuit. If you do it right, your check engine light will come on and stay on, or flash any stored codes you have. HTH

dustin

Make sure you have the headlights, radio, fans, A/C, etc off when setting timing and the engine has been at stable operating temperature for a good 20 minutes of driving (what I do). Else the engine is rough and 'jumpy' and you cannot get a constant timing reading. Also make sure that the engine is idling at the right RPM anyways... 750rpm solid on my car. Else, adjust the idle screw on the TB.

Dustin

HX_Guy

Although you have9might have0 the cam gears set at TDC and at 0,0 they might not be 100% accurate. 0,0 might actually be +1,+1 and you dont know it.

Hopefully you still have the stock cam gears.
If you do, take off the skunk2's and put them back to tak with the stock ones.
Line up all the teeth perfectly and then look at the keyways..they should match exactly!. Better yet..use the keyway off the cam and insert it into both cam gears (while back to back). If everything doesnt line up...then the skunk2's are off and you will have to adjust them to find "true" TDC of the skunk2's.

Hope that helps (and isnt too confusing)

Oh yea..and the Helms says the ECU plug has to be jumped whne adjusting the timing...so make sure you stick a paper clip in there.

optiontoo

A loose timing belt will also cause unstable ignition timing.

SIK IN DA HED

well... the dots match up and the white mark lines up. so i guess its all good. i dont really wanna do it all over again. haha

i guess ill short the ECU. when i do this... i check the timing afterwards right? or does the ECU adjust timing on its own? i dont see how it would do this since the distributor is the one that adjusts timing by the way it is moved back and forth.

falcongsr

Quit screwing around and get a Helms manual already.

Joe

SIK IN DA HED

ive talked to a mechanic who works at acura for the last 7 years. he said you didnt need to jump the ecu.

everything is lined up and TDC. its all good... im gonna re-do the timing tomorrow.

and as for gettin the manual... i dont need it. i gain all my knowledge through experience. the only manual i would use is the genuine one from Acura/Honda. i dont rely on helms or haynes manuals.

Arturbo

Mr. Knowledge, Helms is what Acura uses..

art


[Modified by Arturbo, 4:15 AM 8/11/2001]

SIK IN DA HED

hahahaha just kidding... just makin sure you guys are paying attention.

speedworks

if your engine is dohc do not line up timing belt with marks on the timing gears.
there are holes in the cam girdles that you can drop punches in when installing
the belt. this is the only way to do it correctly. when the belt has been tightened
put balancer back in time and look through cam girdles and make sure holes are
lined up exactly.

SIK IN DA HED

thanks for sharing all your ideas, guys. i got everything taken care of. got my friend to check the timing with a digital timing light and it came out to 14 degrees. exactly where i want it for now.

VaporTrail

that is only a rough guide, and absolutely useless if you have camshafts from another car (ie, Type R) or aftermarket cams. Even with the pins installed, there is a slight play from side to side. This was meant more to hold the cam gears steady while installing the timing belt, rather than to determine TDC.

And anytime I forget to short the ECU, I do get unstable timing readings. Keep in mind that the ECU has timing maps programmed in, based off of the reading of 16 degrees BTDC at the distributor. Adjusting the distributor is basically adding or retarding degrees onto that map.