Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

 
Old 10-05-2018, 06:25 PM
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Default Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Mainly used in outboard marine but the big nitrous v8's use them as well as nascar. Some nitrous guys say they gain more power since they can add timing. Just not much info out there, seems like folks don't want to spread the word lol very secretive. Anyone have experience with them? Haven't found any cross reference charts that relates to vehicles just marine applications.
Plan on running between a 100-150 single nozzle dry shot with id1000 injectors and neptune in a crx hf. I know with h22's and nitrous, its usually plugs or ringlands that kill them. Thinking the ringlands break because the piston rings need to be gapped a bit more and not because they're weak but idk. I've never used nitrous, complete noob, just planning everything out before I start, thanks.
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Old 10-07-2018, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

There's two main reasons why nitrous is harder on internal parts then other forms of forced induction, one is the massive spike in instant torque it provides, the other is if it isn't properly setup using a rpm window switch or engine management to control it (like just running it on a button lol) and then hitting rev limiter on the spray.

Your best bet to keep the motor alive would be ensuring you have a safe ring gap, running a progressive controller that can ease the nitrous in and running higher octane fuel that will definitely withstand the added cylinder pressures.


Running a good sized dry shot and using the injectors for the fuel is the best way to do it. I set up a k20z1 Teg on kpro on a hundred shot and it felt nasty. It pulled like a turbo car when it hit in 3rd gear and it hooked up really well on the street.


as for plugs I've always just ran 7's or 8s depending on the size of the shot and comp of the motor.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

^^This.

To add, busted ringlands = bad tune. End of story. Rods will go long before the ringlands ever have an issue assuming tune is in order. Opening up the top and second ring gaps a little is never a bad idea with forced induction though. If you don't plan to add a progressive controller then you will need to make sure you hit the spray higher in the RPM range. Throwing a 100-150 shot at a stock bottom end at lower rpm is just asking for a windowed block.
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Old 10-08-2018, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Originally Posted by Aradin View Post
^^This.

To add, busted ringlands = bad tune. End of story.
I would agree partially, except when someone rebuilt their engine without checking any clearances. I've tuned stock turbo b20s on 15-16lbs that lasted a long time and I've had "fresh builds" pop on the first few pulls while timing was very conservative and afrs were still rich. It's not always the tune, sometimes it's just a **** motor that was built by someone who sucks at building engines.
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Old 10-08-2018, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

I was speaking more along the lines of completely stock engines that had never been opened or rebuilt but yes I agree with what you said too. Attention to detail during assembly is paramount.
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Old 10-08-2018, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

And all too often overlooked. That's one of the reasons why I've always been scared to touch bottom ends until now.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Sweet thanks for the info guys. Is a few hundred rpm past vtec engagement high enough? 5500 rpm or so? Bone stock h22a1 as that's what I'm getting the car refereed with, but I will be running stronger valve springs just in case, cheap insurance. The WON REVO setup is pretty nice, but expensive. Maybe down the road with a built h23v. I was planning on running a cheap nitrous outlet kit without a progressive controller for now, mostly because my ignorance on controllers and I keep reading they cause solenoids to crap out, which can also blow an engine. Other part I'm unsure on is if a dry single port nozzle right after the air filter is totally fine or should I really look into direct port? 100 shot for now and when I'm ready to drop in an h23v I'll see what the old h22 can take.

I am worried about fueling though. Crappy 91 here. I don't know how safe/risky it is running a 100 to 150 dry shot on 91. If it'll be okay then great. If not, I was reading up on a thread here about running a dry direct nitrous setup with a wet direct kit, and instead of injecting fuel in the foggers, inject water to help boost octane and lower cyl temps. Won't have to mess with meth water mixes. Maybe the nitrous would freeze up the water in the fogger nozzle so I'd have to use a meth mix? Just wondering why I don't hear others doing this so I must be missing something. Haven't finished reading up on these threads, no time
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Water sounds like a bad idea.

91 should be fine if it's tuned properly and you would probably need to pull somewhere between 4-8 degrees for the spray. Haven't used Neptune but s300 and kpro both work amazing for controlling the nitrous solenoid. They have parameters for extra fuel, pulling timing, rpm window switch, load switch, min mph and a bunch of others. 5500+ should be just fine. That cars gonna move out on the unit.
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

VTEC or thereabouts would be ideal. Smaller shot or progressive controller and you could start a little lower. Honestly I would skip the valve springs unless you're going to be revving to the moon or running aftermarket cams. Put that money towards a better quality nitrous kit, a progressive controller setup, or a good set of rods and nitrous spec NPR cast pistons. AFAIK nitrous is not any harder on the valvetrain over a typical NA setup. Boost is a different story. 10psi of boost = 10psi of additional pressure pushing on the back of the intake valves, etc.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:04 AM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

I feel like that's more of a gm thing with the ls engines. B18b1's and b20s have some of the weakest stock valve springs and I put them on higher boost all the time without any issues. Haven't seen a honda float valves from boost yet.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Thanks I'll spend the valve spring money elsewhere, maybe nicer WON pulsoid solenoids and they can be pulsed with the PWM feature s300 and neptune has? The nippon racing cast pistons, all I could find were type s pistons, is that what you were referring to? I was strongly looking into mahle gold's since they're forged but $650 vs cast $250 pistons. Not a huge expense at all in the grand scheme of things. Especially the downtime and headaches they could save me since I am a noob. But money is always a concern. I'm not totally against going e85 either. Have a station a few minutes from work. Just now that stuff has a short shelf life and could gunk the fuel system up.

Lol stupid California smog laws... stuck with the damn frm sleeves and an h22 haha,
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Yes the NPR Type-S pistons. Can run with stock rods or they sell them as a kit with forged H beams that have the proper bushings installed as well. They are a better piston than the stock ones, a middle ground between a full forged setup and the stock setup if you will. It will alter your compression ratio and likely emissions too so take that into consideration if the car has to be BAR'd. The good part is that they likely won't need any machining to drop in and being a cast piston they should last many miles. I have heard very mixed things, more on the side of disaster, about the H series MAHLE golds but I have no experience with them personally.
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Old 10-10-2018, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Thanks for clarifying. Sweet will get the rods as well. I know folks in emission test states have been able to pass a sniffer with hollowed out cats running e85 with an appropriate tune. Some cts-v forum I think? That's the plan with my cammed jeep anyway, no idea if the sniffer would pick up the e85 will do some research. I think it was NOX that compression would raise. The more I looked into the Mahles the less I want them, seems like they're claiming you can use it but it's no different than any other forged piston with a special coating.

I tend to get carried away planning these things out. Going to step back and stick to a cheap sub $400 dry single nozzle 100 shot. Should be plenty in a 1700lb h22 crx. Plan was a project car with the best bang for buck under 5k. Should do high 10s with around 275whp.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:46 AM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Keep us updated. You're one of the few people I've seen recently even talking about nitrous, not to mention WON. That's the pulsoid I plan on going with eventually, no money to do it since I'm in school now...I have to live vicariously through others. So post some pictures/video/timeslips whenever you get it working!
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:09 AM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Originally Posted by THEhomelessONE View Post
I tend to get carried away planning these things out. Going to step back and stick to a cheap sub $400 dry single nozzle 100 shot. Should be plenty in a 1700lb h22 crx. Plan was a project car with the best bang for buck under 5k. Should do high 10s with around 275whp.
light weight + a little bit of power = a cheap fun and reliable beater race car. Might end up putting my b20 crx on the bottle down the road but I want 11's out of it on the motor first.

Enough Talk,
Lets see some pics
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Thanks, will keep you guys updated. Lol not much to show yet, bone stock 89 crx hf with rpf1's and yokohama a048's hahaha. My uncle kicked me out of our shop because we argued over late pay so he fired me (illegal I know but whatever) lol not comfortable doing a swap at the new shop I'm at now so will just pay the $1,500 or so during the winter to have the swap done. Have ex knuckles and rear disc conversion ready to go on, larger booster and MC. Getting my dealers license is my first priority, then jeep and then crx. Was debating going with an LSV but smog is a pain here in CA. Don't want to go obd2, so my choices are either b16 or h22. Found a prelude for cheap, smogged and registered.

The jeep is a sleeper too lol I know there's some jeep guys here on ht don't remember who but it's a 98 5.9 zj grand cherokee. I have around 5k in performance stuff to throw on. Have been holding off but my water pump started leaking so I need to get on it asap. Lightly ported heads, cam, intake manifold, headers, rockers, lifters, pushrods, tuning, injectors, timing chain, throttle body, etc. Suspension is all IRO long arms, 6" lift, OTK steering, PSE steering gear, bilsteins on (only) 32's until I can afford some killer axles (around 8k). Should net 425hp 475tq with a nice lope at idle, when the 5.9 dies I'll go 6.7 stroker with a new cam, maybe 475hp 525tq Few cars are quicker to 30mph haha, leave the first few feet with the front left and rear right spinning. Have hurt STI and mustang owner feelings in the past lol.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:48 PM
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

The 98 5.9s are bad ***. I got the chance to tune a 07 srt8 Jeep on a 125 shot. That suv hauled ***. Crx looks clean man!
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Old 10-11-2018, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: Surface gap spark plugs? Any experience?

Thanks, I bought it with no real intention of off roading. Pure Bay Area assault vehicle. 6" of up-travel 5" of droop with the lowest spring rates out there, to hit these speed bumps and curbs full speed lol curbs tested at 25mph speed bumps 40mph catching air. Stuck in the middle of red/black traffic in google maps with no way out? No problem, lock wheel to the left and punch it. Goes over all kinds of dividers and bushes just great! Metal bumpers so even the most determined old lady in a subaru forester won't make a dent trying to fit in a space too small. Oh, and no one ever wants to park too close to me lol so my fat *** can always get in and out anywhere I go. Ride so high I can see a dirty pedestrian ready to jump out in front of me from a mile away, single 3" straight pipe after cat, leave their ears ringing and eyes burning from teh emissions of my sct flash. Lol and road rage? Never an issue in the niner haha. Miss driving it..
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