elijahcole92

Hello all,

Been around the honda game for awhile, but haven't spent much time on HT. Anyways, just recently bought a rods/piston/stock sleeve ls-v with a T3 6262 on it.

Alot of the supra guys run Quick Spool Valves (QSV) on undivided manifold and divided housing that in turn increases spool by 400-500rpm and greatly increases torque and response down low. Here is the link. http://www.spracingonline.com/store/...ool_Valve/3643

I'm not a big fan of lag/only peak power, and since i have a SP Quick Spool Valve on my Supra, and it makes alot of difference (6466 drives like stock twins). I'd like to add one to this setup as well. Cost would be around $700 to buy a new divided housing and QSV. (might have to shorten my downpipe to account for the 3/4" thickness of the valve) (will be changing from a t3 undivided to t3 divided 1.00ar)

Few things i'm wondering though i'd like to get your thoughts on.
1. The actuator on the QSV isn't set to open until 8psi, and my car is setup with boost by gear. Will be around 8psi 1st, 11psi 2nd, so on and so forth. Durability wise i know it won't hurt the QSV, but i don't know if it would affect anything else?

2. With the increase in spool/torque, would i be fighting harder for traction or would it be easier since power will come on more gradual and less suddenly?

3. Since there aren't many results or attempts at trying this on smaller motors, how will the gains be compared to that of the supra guys?

Let me know what you guys think. Honestly, i really just want to try it to see what it does compared to the bigger motor results, and since nobody seems to be attempting this kind of thing in the honda world (that i know of)

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

It was addressed here about 2 years ago

https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/anyone-consider-running-sp-quick-spool-valve-3033955/

Tony the Tiger summed it up here..

Give it a shot if you'd like. I've definitely found a better use for the money with a properly sized turbine housing /turbine wheel match to be more beneficial.

elijahcole92

I've tuned a few Supra's with them and it's not as complicated as he makes it sound. It would be best to utilize a aem solenoid to smooth the flat spot, but it's not necessary, lots of guys just run it straight off the QSV actuator.

Just trying to see what i can work with, with the turbo i already have

Tony the Tiger

I would still say the same thing, after tuning about 4 more Supras and one in a Skyline with the QSV since I made that post.

The one that ran the best, was a Supra with a 3.4L stroker and a 62mm turbo. The gap was much smaller between engine size and turbo size.

The flat spot is always there. If you are a highway roll-on racer, or if you aggressively geared your car for time attack, that flat spot will **** you off.

If you use it on a Honda with 1.8L or 2.0L at most, anything larger than a GT30R you will have that flat spot. But then again, it depends on your standards of response. To some, they would simply enjoy the low RPM spool gain and don't care much about the rest.

h22apwrd95

iTrader: (1)

Tony, what are your thoughts on a properly ramped EBC either standalone or controlled by the ECU. I saw a large difference in spool response and what RPM it actually spooled when keeping the gate shut using the ECU's boost control function. In essence, using the PWM control as a QSV of sorts. When operating off of gate pressure, and just using the PWM for target boost, the WG starts to open before target boost is reached. If duty cycle is increased prior to reaching target boost, the WG is forced shut, and it spools faster. I think it is a better setup for our smaller engines. OP, with PWM controlled boost control as well, you are able to increase boost by RPM/speed/gear and better control traction for the street, which sounds like it may be a large goal for you.

slayer423

I use quickspool option on the hondata s300 and I found it to make wonders on my ls turbo with 1.8l. I don't get the spool advantage when compared to a 2.2l or vtec head. and I gotta say its extremely useful for maximizing torque. but you have to tune it right cuz you could have too much or too little. then you will be stuck between trying to find the right medium. idatalog my car and when I compare the different boost curves I notice at least a 500rpm increase and u can properly tune the wastegate this way. the only negative is that when you want to switchto a lower boost map you have to get the laptop and lower your quickspool value otherwise your wastegate will oscillate and flutter.

slayer423

what do you guys mean by flat spot??

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

At high power levels when the valve opens it causes a massive drop in preturbine backpressure and an increase in exhaust flow. this can cause a flat spot in the powerband since the turbine could momentarily slow down, it also causes a change in the engines VE which if not tuned can also cause a flat spot.

op, if you want to use the valve then you need to play around with opening rpm and the rate at which the valve opens.. you can do this by using a typical boost control solenoid and a pwm rpm vs load table. if it opens too fast you could see turbine shaft speed drop a bit (and thus boost) until the manifold backpressure equalizes and it could also cause an issue within the ve table.

where as if you open it slowly the engine will continue to operate fairly normal as you're slowly allowing exhaust gasses into the turbine housing which will allow for an even, gradual change in flow and backpressure and it will help the turbine maintain speed.

it's going to take lots of fiddling to get it right.

elijahcole92

Well, i got the QSV and new AGP t3 divided housing installed today as well as modifying my oil drain to drain properly, (it's reallllyy short now. pretty much only an inch or two of line between the fittings). Car will be setup on BBG with a PWM solenoid and tuned next week hopefully. I'll keep you guys informed and include a dyno sheet

The valve will open gradually to reduce the flat spot as much as possible so we will see. My supra is a built 3.0l with 6466 and has a aem solenoid on the QSV and it has no flat spot in the curve or felt on the road.

I'm going to try to get as close a comparison i can by after finishing the tune with the valve operating, using air pressure to hold the valve open during the whole pull to see the difference in spool.

Tony the Tiger

It doesn't hurt to try... Since I ended up tuning quite a few of them, the QSV's begin to have big flat spots when turbo sizes become larger. I have concluded that on most Supras, anything 72mm or larger with a 3.0L doesn't work well unless it was only for dyno or low speed driving. Highway roll-ons become an issue.

Seems like all the setups I had tuned, were common installations and the manifold collector is usually very short (like on a Supra or a Skyline with topmounts). I am sure by looking at how the QSV diverts the path of exhaust gases, it could greatly benefit from a manifold with a much longer/taller collector and perhaps a "necked down" section just before the turbine entry so that the exhaust gases can go through one scroll without the crazy turbulence from a 90 deg turn when the QSV is closed.

I just never had much luck with it... I had hooked up the QSV using a PWM boost output from an AEM EMS, but the engine doesn't respond as quickly as I liked on a Supra with a 6466 turbo. With the plate half opened (I first started with gradual opening, and then 50% angles, etc.), the turbulence is causing more issues than anything. The engine keeps bogging and having erratic A/F curves. There was no good method to determine what it really wants for fuel or timing. Theoretically it sounds great that the plate can open half way, but it end up being much cleaner and easier to tune if it just opened at a certain activation point. Because it works off a wastegate actuator, giving it 100% duty at an earlier preset point allowed the plate to open gradually based on boost pressure, and it worked the best to avoid the sudden slow down of the turbine.

Although I don't have true direct comparisons, I had much better results with a mixture of good spool and no response issues on a divided scroll setup. So for now, I would rather recommend a twin scroll or divided scroll setup if it boils down to having maximum spool for the power.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea a true twin scroll housing makes amazing midrange torque and to some degree does help initial response.

the Sierra Sierra EVO has a 2.2l 4G63 and with the EFR9180 (1000hp turbo) they are seeing 2bar (32psi) by 5,000rpm resulting in roughly 600awhp/600lbft at 5250rpm. That's on a 1.05a/r T4 twinscroll turbine housing and an 80mm radial flow turbine wheel.

another 2.2l EVO is seeing 2.5bar (36psi) by 5250rpm and making 664awhp/664lbft at the same rpm on the same turbo, housing, and manifold.

of course Borg Warners Gamma-Ti turbine wheel and dual ceramic ball bearings with a silver plated cage help a good bit but even between shifts the boost recovery is almost instant. this is where the twinscroll housings help a lot, transient response between shifts

these days twin scroll really is the way to go.

Those results are really making me want to run an 8374 or 9180 on my time attack 2.2l civic build lol

but I definitely agree with tony, at some point that valve causes a huge amount of backpressure and turbulence within the turbo manifold and turbine housing. while supras have a short merge collector and a considerably larger exhaust gas volume than a 1.8l Honda motor you'll still see some of these effects at high power/rpm. they should just be less pronounced
..s..