NICOSLOW

Hey Guys I'm new to Honda-tech and somewhat new to the Honda scene. I'm putting together a new project car for myself, and wanted to know if there were big differences between the a LS block and a GSR block when it comes to having one sleeved. I have an LS short block in my garage that I plan on having sent out to get a set of Darton Mid sleeves but I wanted to seek advice from some of you guys who have much more experience then I do. Does the GSR block have anything beneficial that I should know about that the LS block doesn't?? should I ditch my LS block for a GSR block or is the LS block with Dartons going to be able to take as much abuse as a sleeved GSR block. I'm trying to avoid spending $1200 having my LS block sleeved and then finding out it would have been better to just pick up a GSR block and have that sleeved. If it helps my plans are to run between a 67mm to a 72mm turbo b16 head big cams and all the supporting mods.


Thanks for any advice in advanced and yes I have searched, and I'm also new the Honda scene but not new to the car modding scene I currently own a 400whp big turbo sti and before that I had a Built wrx with a PT67 stright cut gears etc.

0project dc2

iTrader: (1)

the GSR block has the block main gridle that does great to tie up the bottom end and strengthen it. People have put tons of power through sleeved LS's without a issue though. If both blocks were at your disposal, gsr, if you were to vtec head it you dont have to do the LSVTEC conversion to the mtoor

vtechjunkie

iTrader: (2)

I thought I read somewhere that Golden Eagle uses the LS block for their blocks that get sleeved. What "project dc2" said about the girdle is right on though.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Hello, and welcome.

Since the deck heights of the two engine blocks of the same, both of the blocks have their advantages. The LS block uses the longer stroke 89mm (vs. 87.2mm of the GS-R), but the GS-R is easier to integrate the very highly efficient VTEC cylinder head. Otherwise, if using a VTEC cylinder head (B16 or GS-R) on the LS block requires about 250 bucks in additional parts from an LS/VTEC conversion kit (this requires an oil sandwich plate, modified head gasket, and oil lines from the block to the head) which can be a pain.

So, what many do in your situation is they will take the LS crank and put it into the GS-R block, and sleeve the block to 84mm bore, creating a wonderfully torquey yet powerful turbo monster. When using the LS crank, in your case you would use LS length rods to fit into the engine. (you match crank/rods together ---LS Crank/LS length rods, GS-R crank/GS-R length rods) when you sleeve to 84mm w/ the 89mm crank= 1998cc engine. this combination would be best for what i believe you're looking for coming from the subie world, as this would make a nice torque monster (Hondas are not known for torque, even in boosted applications)

With the use of the LS crank in the GS-R engine,you would only then need to use a Golden eagle oil squirter block kit, as there is a chance for the crank to hit these piston squirters and cause a bit of imbalance in the rotating assembly that would score the cylinders. You can get Golden Eagle piston squirter block kits for $12 on Golden Eagle mfg website.

One other thing. For most turbo users, there's no real need to do any real machine work to a VTEC cylinder head like in the subie world, because these cylinder heads are so efficient. So port n polish really don't help with much. depending upon your goals, OEM cams do just fine (GS-R, type R, etc) or if using a turbo like your 66mm, larger NA cams would be used (not "turbo cams)"

Lastly, unlike the subie world, there is no need to run 8.5:1 or 8.8:1 because of the efficiency of the engine. for best results, plan your build to be about 9.0:1 or above (some here run 10.0:1 on pump gas turbocharged for better off-boost response and use of the turbocharger). Since many honda owners don't do 20psi on pump gas, unless they are at least 61mm inducer turbos or larger, there's no need to go that high like in the Subie world. so 23psi + just really isn't necessary. You can make 400whp at maybe 16psi on 61lbs/min or smaller, so just understand the engine difference b/w Honda and Subaru.

Hope this helps, and welcome.

E85B18

Great post as always Shodan

cjordan

iTrader: (1)

x2

redzcstandardhatch

SHODAN

nice informative post.

i'd also recomend using the GSR block, with LS crank/LS length rods. a true 2 liter, still rev-able, and a more useable powerband, in almost any config.

and, the vtec head bolts right on with no associated parts needed....even though a vtec conversion isnt really a big deal. the OEM partial girdle is a GREAT thing though.

NICOSLOW

This is exactly what I was looking for thanks guys, and SHODAN thanks for the specifics I really appreciate it.

So here's my other question for you I have an LS block in my garage, Is the GS-R block really that much tougher where I should ditch the LS block. Would it just be better to buy the Vtec conversion kit, then to buy another block? Is it possible to run the GS-R main girdle if I had a light line bore done, or would I be opening up a whole other can of worms needing custom bearings and such??

I do already have a b16 head ready for the motor as well but the whole bottom end needs to be built before I can start with that but I do want to build something that Is going to be strong as possible. The chassis is setup already with a 10pt cage and lightened up so I want the bottom end to be able to take a 72mm turbo at 35+ psi, so go with the GS-R block and play it safe or would I be ok with the LS block I already have?

Next question If I run the LS crank/rod (aftermarket) in either block with the B16 head do I need pistons that are shorter to make up for the longer stroke on the crank or are LS rods shorter? I know I need some kind of Vtec pistons for the valve reliefs. I was looking at the 9.0:1 CP pistons because I have had a set in one of my Subaru built motors and then seem to be super high quality very quiet all around niece piece.

Last but not least kind of off topic even though it is a supporting mod for Forced induction. B series transmissions who builds them, what are there limitations whats going to be the stronger of the tranny's? What options do I have in this area considering I am on a budget and probably cant afford a all out straight cut dog box setup.

Thanks again guys, I'm going to try and get most of my questions out in this thread.

NICOSLOW

Any advice for me guys?

smoovy

what shodan pointed out to you is the pros of each block. personally I am using a LS block. there strong. there are aftermarket girdles that can be used in the LS block. like shodan pointed out, you can always put a GSR crank and rods in and it is very similar to a GSR setup minus the squirters. it's all in what you want in the end. honda's are not like subies. if you build any of these blocks right, your going to love them. to me, there's no best or better engine....it's what you use and how it's put together. there's even D16 single cams in the 8's nowadays. take that for what it's worth, and don't cheap out on important things. it may cost you in the long run.

Mfactory, liberty, PPG, and par make gearsets, there are probably others I am forgetting but to be honest with you, honda transmissions are pretty strong. made to handle 130-195HP and people are putting down huge numbers still using them.

t3601

one thing that no one pointed out here. i sleeved a ls block, used all the proper parts, pushed 30psi threw it and pulled the head stud threads out of the block. if i would have known that the gsr has almost twice the thread amount for the head studs i would have used it in the first place. so i would have to say definately use the gsr block, especially if you intend to do big numbers. i know plenty of people that have had good luck with ls's, but i had horrible luck with mine. the gurdle is one thing, the easy oil port for the head, you can use either crank you want, but the head stud threads make the call for me. i wouldn't give that feeling of torquing down your head and it pops the threads up to anyone. i'm nervous torquing any head down after i had that happen to me.

so all in all the gsr is a better choice.

06Si_LoveR

^^ Makes me think twice about a build I was planning on. I think its time to find a GSR block

Trust-Me

Im thinking of getting an off the sheff Golden Eable Sleeved B18A block. Will have this have the same pros and cons as a sleeved LS block? or is it stronger?

VtecCarHauler

same strength the only thing the gsr has over the LS is a crankshaft girdle. As mentioned before there is aftermarket girdles available for both GSR an LS blocks.

Turbo-charged

i use a LS block on my stuff, 50-55lbs of boost. i do use a ERL girdle.

we always try to use a LS crank on high hp stuff, obviously for the slightly larger stroke but mostly because the big end of the rod is much beefier on a LS than on a gsr

either block will be fine. at the end of the day if you can get your hands on a GSR block i'd go that route simply because you dont have to worry about the ls/vtec conversion stuff. no external oil lines, and just a cleaner install.

also any time we sleeve a block we use nice rods so you decide down the road you want to put on a large turbo and really make some power, you dont have to tear the motor down again. we use manley rods primarily in the sleeved motors.

also pick your pistons assuming you will want to make big power down the road. the wiseco stuff is nice, but we dont use their off the shelf pistons on high horsepower stuff (i have custom wiseco's in my motor). as far as a off the shelf piston goes, we have had excellent luck with JE's. some will suggest CP, but ive had better luck with the JE's. upgraded wrist pins for the pistons are a cheap but good investment as well.

good luck!