I had Hondata, I'm still happier with the EMS.

 

I know a good bet.

Tune that thing with the EMS to the maximum. Then, bring it down to me, I run it on the dyno. I let you make a few adjustments if you want.

Then I hook up the Hondata, and I tune it.

We can bet cash, or whatever you like. I bet the Hondata makes more power, and takes less time to tune. And is less money. And is easier to diagnose problems if there is one.

This will be a good test for Import Review. Hondata VS EMS.

I have not done this test before, but have used both units, so I am familiar.

Wanna do it?

Jeff

 

Can you get rid of that horrid hesitation I had with the hondata at -350millibar vacuum?

Can you make it so I don't have to burn chips endlessly, constantly opening and closing the case on mu ECU? And keep me from bending the pins on those damn chips...

Can you make it so I don't have to have a hokey secondary box floating in my glove box connected by 4 fragile wires that are crimped to the edge of the ecu case, almost being severed?

Can you make the Hondata datalogging useful and accurate?

Can you make it so I can change settings on the fly, without having to rewire my cigarette lighter to power the burner/emulator constantly? I'd also like it if Ctrl-E didn't throw a CEL and put my car in limp home mode.

Can you fix Rom editor so that it accurately converts O2 voltage into AFR? It seems to never save my own voltage map.

While we're at it, we should fix the base P72 low throttle ignition maps.

I'd like to log some auxiliary inputs, can you make Hondata do that too?

I'd like to build a ITB N/A car using TPS as load rather than MAP. Can I do this with Hondata?

I spent $1300 on all my Hondata 4b nonsense. I spent $1180 on the AEM EMS. Is there a good way to fix this?

I spent less time getting my car drivable with the EMS than I did with Hondata. The reason it takes less time to "tune" hondata is because you cannot change anything.

I want to be able to pick the RPM and load intervals for fuel and timing -- Where do I set this in Rom editor?

I'm sort of tired of hauling my laptop around to datalog -- How can I log to Hondata's internal memory?

Where in Rom editor do I set injection timing?

I just got one of those cool dual rail Victor-X intake manifolds. I'm going to run 310cc primary and 550cc secondary injectors... Which Rom editor screen do I go to to set up staged injection?

... I could go on.........

I'd like to know how a particular form of fuel management can make more power than another under full load? Power numbers at full load are pretty much independent of the fuel management used. You need the right amount of fuel -- at the right time... and you need spark -- at the right time. The added value in a system is in those features that give you more options and provide drivability.

Hondata works. It's a viable option. It lacks many features. It makes for a very nice street car. It works well on cars that are mildly modified.

However, saying that the AEM EMS "doesn't work" is not true to the facts, nor is it fair.

Dustin

 

Mine never fit flush with the bottom of my block. I went through gaskets like no tomorrow. I had to over-torque some bolts and under-torque others to get it to fit. Mine also warped after a month of use. Gee, I wonder if these are at all related?

Tom

 

bam!

 

dustin knows his ****!

 

Just because they copy designs, doesnt make them a bad company or a product that doesnt work.

Rota's are very strong rims and are considerably light too.


you can call the companies cheap for not being original, but cant say they are bad products.

 

My list of crappy products:
Drag oil return line (if you have seen one, you know)
Drag downpipe (didn't fit at all!!!)
Turbonetics Deltagate Mark II (I got lots of overboost with my MBC)
Autometer A/F (looks good but not useful)
Any form of checkvalve
Neuspeed Sportline Springs (lowered my car more than they said they would)
Stock Automatic Transmissions (who would have thought they don't like 10 PSI?)
Magnacore spark plug wires (one of the boots snapped off around my plug while still in the engine, that was a bitch getting out!)
Falken Ziex's (all weather my ***)

My list of GREAT products:
Fram oil filters (cheap and work well)
Hondata 2bd (once it was tuned, my car runs 100% better)
Helm's manual (my bible)
Tial wastegate (never had any overboost)

More to come...

 

Dustin,
If I had to do things again, I may have gone the aem route if they were available at the time. My car is doing quite well with the Hondata. That hesitation problem does exist and I have 3 customers with the problem although to a much lesser extent than I had. I run a single runner manifold so I use my P72 ECU but have to use a P28 ROM file to eliminate the hesitation. Derek at Hondata keeps insisting it is a tuning issue. I know now he is F.O.S. and is just too lazy or too busy to address this issue. Steve of SGT is also finding this hesitation as well.

I do believe that for most people looking for a fast and reliable street car, the Hondata is much easier to set up and tune.


As for the J&S, I think I am sorry I bought mine. John has been very helpful in guiding my installation but it is very sensitive and my engines noise triggers it so either it is retarding for no reason at high rpms and high boost (I am nearly certain its not detonating) or i have to turn it down so much that I wonder if it would even pick up knock. I agree with VaporTrail on this one. Tune it right and just pray you don't detonate. Besides, its low rpm detonation/pinging that really puts your engine at risk. I would hear pinging at low rpm but at high rpm there aint no way anyone's gonna hear it!

Torin

 

I had the same hesitation with my p72 program and when I switched to a p28 even though I'm still running the p72 my hesitation is fixed. Mine always studdered right at -10 vac.

 

This debate has be jumping back and forth between the Hondata and the AEM... arrrgghhh....

Good stuff though.

 

AEM EMS IS A SHITBOX

get a gen 7 DFI or a F.A.S.T (speedpro)

 

id like to see more on this aem/hondata battle....ive been lookin at both...id like to hear wat everyone else thinks ofhte 2

 

I had the Jacobs Electronics Ice Pak on my car for over a year, and it never gave me any problems. In fact, I almost forgot about it because I bolted it onto my bumper where you couldn't see it. Now I have no idea if it improved anything, but it never gave me ANY trouble. Are you guys talking about quality or performance gains? I never dynoed my car or took it to the track.


[Modified by Stu, 9:15 AM 9/13/2002]

 

DFI gen 7 is junk...has no features. Hondata....cant boost above 28 pounds, no good for me. ACT clutches are great clutches in my eyes. I ran a act heavy duty....no, no even a extreme with a 6 puk and had about 6 NINE SECOND passes on that and a bunch of dyno time and 10 sec. passes.....Mike

 

I never said the EMS didn't work/ Where the hell did I write that?

My argument, once again. Was that it took way too much time to do the same thing as Hondata does.

I can fix any problem with hesitation, or whatever with Hondata.

I could also make a long list of what the Hondata is good for, and the AEM CANNOT do.

Injector recalibration for huge injectors is one of them. NO, not just injector multiplier...all systems can do that. I mean calibration to adjust for the "lag" larger injectors have at narrow throttle.

This alone makes the Hondata like 10x better than an EMS for boost. Well, back to the original argument..

Unless you have unlimited time and money on your hands, then you could fix all the messed up fuel tables in the EMS to compensate for the injector "lag".

I use both units. I know what they can and can't do.

The issue is not if one makes more power. The issue is how long does it take to get that much power.

Hondata is GOLD in this category. And is supreme.

Plus their support is unparralled.

I think you took it the wrong way, its not the outcome that is different...its the TIME.

AEM sucks.

Jeff

 

The title of this thread is "Products that dont work"

You might want to share this with Hondata then -- Because many of their users are unable to get rid of the hesitation despite hours of tuning and tweaking.

Shoot.

Hondata has such calibration? No.. Even with their neat-o injector multiplier stuff I had to fool for a long time with the fuel maps to get correct fuel delivery at low duty cycle. Where, then, do you set this? The AEM EMS does, in fact, have this feature, though. Perhaps you are getting the 2 systems confused?

Read above. Moot.

Do you?

I hate to quote your previous post, but you said:

You know what, if this is how we're going to conduct the argument, I have a new contention. I think that the STOCK ECU + FMU is the best fuel set up then for a turbo application. I mean, this must be PLATINUM in the amount of time necessary for tuning. Just bolt that crap in, no tuning necessary. Does this make it any better? No. Hondata doesn't have any features -- that's the problem.

I'm sorry that the EMS is too confusing for you to figure out. Some of us want that complexity.

Sorry to sound like a jerk, hehe. Hondata and the AEM EMS both work. Hondata may very well take less time to tune, but that does not make it a better system necessarily.

Dustin

 

Anyone have any reviews on Action CLUTCHS?!!??!?!

aem vs hondata, man im soo back an forth, i think im gonna go with whats simplier and is proven, hondata 4b here i come

 

Ok Dustin.

I will explain more. I think thread will clear up alot of mis-conceptions about both units.

Lets start with the injector re-calibration.

The EMS can change the injector rate for each size of injector you run. However. It cannot compensate for the "lag" experienced with larger injectors. You have to do this manually, in the tables by making the "lower" map areas of throttle richer.

The Hondata Does this. Built in. And I am not talking about the injector multiplier area. It has nothing to do with that.
I am talking about injector re-calibration based on larger injector "lag".

When you run RC 550 CC injectors, say...you have to add like 40% more fuel to column 1, say 35% more fuel to column 2, etc etc all the way to the last column.

This compensates for Fuel lag, from larger injectors.

AEM can't do it. So you do it manually. That takes way way longer. BUt you can do it.

I tune more Hondata's than anyone in the world. I have more experience of Dyno time with the Hondata, than even the staff at Hondata.

There has never been a car that has had any hesitation at all, whatsoever.
Because I can fix it.

And I have been over this with Doug and Derek from Hondata, and we know exactly why people are getting hesitation.

However, the problem is...we are not there to guide them on how to fix it. Because the phone is not the same.

I agree with Dustin on one of his points. "this thread is about Products that don't work".

And the EMS does work. But its just lame because of the time involved and the lack of support from AEM to help you make it work.

I did an EMS on a S2000. I upload their "base" program, with my air/fuel guage attached, and their base program is barely even driveable. And several errors came up with "ecu calibration" and it took hours and hours to fix it. But the car was tunable, and it worked.

People that have problems with Hondata, simply need to bring it to me and pay the pro to make it work. I can fix any Hondata problem. I know the system inside out, and I have found things in the system that even the makers of it did not knwo about.

I would be glad to help anyone with Hondata problems. But not over the phone. They have to bring it down, and pay for the tuning. And then, they always leave satisfied.

Dustin, next time, buy the Hondata from me. You pay full retail, but it comes with the JEFF guarantee.

"if you don't like the results of the unit, I take it off, and you don't pay".

I tell alot of people that, and nobody has said..."ok, take it off". because its king.

It would have to be reasonable. Some people think Hondata just automatically fixes ALL their problems...instantly.

Its common to get people call up and say..." you did Hondata on my car, and after a month, it doesn't idle good anymore".

This is not the Hondata's fault. Its the motors fault. Sure enough, they bring it over, water is leaking out from the area its attached to the throttle body that controls idle.

So, in conclusion, I can see your frustrated with the Hondata, and I remember I offered to help you a while back.

All you need to do, is bring it to me. Problem solved.

I won't do anymore EMS's. I would have to charge people at least $600 to get it running great. People won't pay that kind of money for tuning.

So, sorry for posting this in this thread. It does work, it just sucks from taking too long, and lack of support on the product from AEM.

Thanks for listening all of you. And you too Dustin.

Jeff

 

Amen..

Seriously though.. the hesitation problem can easily be fixed.. Don't use a p72 ecu.. I had that same problem. I popped in a p28 ecu and the problem was solved. Same exact map. Like Jeff said.. For ease of tuning and the time taken to make a car run well the hondata definetly wins hands down.

-Mike

 

DUBS

 

I don't know how you think Hondata does this automatically -- It doesn't know anything about the "lag" time of a specific injector. Does it just automagically fix the problem? If so, why do we need pages like this: http://www.hondata.com/techinjectorsizing.html

It tells you to do EXACTLY what you just said that you had to do for the AEM EMS.

 

****, who ever thought you would have defend a product like the EMS. After doing my research there was no other choice for me...

 

Lifestyles condoms. I'm a Trojan man forever now.

 

live long...stay stock!..