i have been noticing that engines with head gaskets are making more power than those with "built" bottom ends. a common route that people take with the s2000 is the 3mm gasket which retains the stock piston and the CR is lowered to about 9:1 right? the aftermarket piston also reduced the CR to 9:1 depending on the brand.
engines running the HG seem to make more power per psi of boost running the same turbo as a motor running aftermarket pistons.
so my guess would be it has to do something with the dome of the original piston that causes better burn in the combustion chamber than a flat or near flat piston does.
judging by that would it be better if i were to have say CP pistons to make me a stock NA piston design built for turbo and run a head gasket or maybe have them make a stock piston with a raised pin height for lower compression.

 

anyone?

 

what motor doesnt run a HG ??? provide a link please

a domed piston is going to raise compression
a flat will lower it
a dish will lower it

 

Next time you think, dismiss it as retarded

 

I think he meant running a thicker headgasket and stock pistons to lower CR vs simply using a dished piston to lower CR.

 

ya. I know.


QUOTE: i have been noticing that engines with head gaskets are making more power than those with "built" bottom ends.


Retarded

 

i guess you dont know the answer

 

You guess??? running a 3mm headgasket is [freak]ing retarded, and if you see people making more on a setup like that than a built bottom end.....the real question is if they are more retarded than you.

Theres your answer.

 

a 3mm HG is in common use.

 

No thanks

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jzz30 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have been noticing that engines with head gaskets are making more power than those with "built" bottom ends. a common route that people take with the s2000 is the 3mm gasket which retains the stock piston and the CR is lowered to about 9:1 right? the aftermarket piston also reduced the CR to 9:1 depending on the brand.
engines running the HG seem to make more power per psi of boost running the same turbo as a motor running aftermarket pistons.so my guess would be it has to do something with the dome of the original piston that causes better burn in the combustion chamber than a flat or near flat piston does.
judging by that would it be better if i were to have say CP pistons to make me a stock NA piston design built for turbo and run a head gasket or maybe have them make a stock piston with a raised pin height for lower compression.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

How did you justify that? And from what sources?

Read up on quench zones.

I don't think that it would be wise to make a piston with a raised wrist pin, the stress where there is less metal will break the pin right off the piston.


Modified by Scheizty at 4:25 PM 7/22/2008

 

sources? well my friend's s2000 had a 3mm head gasket ran about a bar of boost and made about 400hp. then decided to build the engine and made 430hp but at 23psi. he thought maybe the head was bad so got another engine and did another build sleevs rods and pistons and the results were roughly the same.

the piston pin height was just an idea. im sure piston manufacturers have different ways of doing this.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jzz30 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sources? well my friend's s2000 had a 3mm head gasket ran about a bar of boost and made about 400hp. then decided to build the engine and made 430hp but at 23psi. he thought maybe the head was bad so got another engine and did another build sleevs rods and pistons and the results were roughly the same.

the piston pin height was just an idea. im sure piston manufacturers have different ways of doing this. </TD></TR></TABLE>

whats the CR of the pistons he used to build the engine ? also was he using the built engine with a stock hg or the 3mm hg

 

Quench would definitely change for the worse with 3mm gaskets. Thicker gaskets are cheaper than pistons but not as effective.
Pin placement is changed significantly in stroker motors. some pistons appear to have very little metal under the wrist pins. You might check with various piston mfgrs. tech support to see what they have and recommend. If you are considering piston pin relocation, you might as well buy the pistons that are already made for the job. They would be cheaper and work better than what you suggest with a custom pin relocation.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jzz30 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sources? well my friend's s2000 had a 3mm head gasket ran about a bar of boost and made about 400hp. then decided to build the engine and made 430hp but at 23psi. he thought maybe the head was bad so got another engine and did another build sleevs rods and pistons and the results were roughly the same.

the piston pin height was just an idea. im sure piston manufacturers have different ways of doing this. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Ummmm

maybe his tuner sucks????

 

For one thing, when most build a boost motor for the street, they lower compression to avoid detonation. When you run lower compression, you will need more boost in order to make the equivalent in power, except with a lower octane requirement.

However, even if he lowered compression, he still should've made more than 430 hp at that boost level. I've heard of h series making that power at 15 psi. There is definately something wrong there.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scheizty &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For one thing, when most build a boost motor for the street, they lower compression to avoid detonation. When you run lower compression, you will need more boost in order to make the equivalent in power, except with a lower octane requirement.

However, even if he lowered compression, he still should've made more than 430 hp at that boost level. I've heard of h series making that power at 15 psi. There is definately something wrong there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

15psi doesnt tell you what turbo they were using

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Scheizty &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For one thing, when most build a boost motor for the street, they lower compression to avoid detonation. When you run lower compression, you will need more boost in order to make the equivalent in power, except with a lower octane requirement.

However, even if he lowered compression, he still should've made more than 430 hp at that boost level. I've heard of h series making that power at 15 psi. There is definately something wrong there.</TD></TR></TABLE>

**** I make 500WHP at 15 PSI on pump (61mm T4 snail) This guy has yet to mention what snail...

 

ok so running a 3mm HG in an F20c lowers your CR to roughly 9:1 or so i read. so that would make all 3 of my friend's setups more or less 9:1
same manifold same gt3082 and everything else. after such success with the HG he built the another motor but failed with the power so he thought something was wrong so he built another.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jzz30 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sources? well my friend's s2000 had a 3mm head gasket ran about a bar of boost and made about 400hp. then decided to build the engine and made 430hp but at 23psi. he thought maybe the head was bad so got another engine and did another build sleevs rods and pistons and the results were roughly the same.

the piston pin height was just an idea. im sure piston manufacturers have different ways of doing this. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Then your friend did something terribly wrong with his motor. All other things being equal, a flat top or dished piston is going to have a better flame front and make better power than a domed piston. Especially with a domed piston that is running a 3mm HG for a giant quench area.