we plan to he bought that ecu like that, crome works but uberdata does not.

his wifes car did not require either of those for hondata. who knows?

btw whay do the capacitors do to the ecu?

 

Yea if you notice Uberdata requires that you solder 2 additional location compared to any other Rom Editing software. I tried loading plenty of different base maps into Uberdata and none worked. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against Uberdata just that Crome worked without any issues and it's just a little bit easier on the eyes.. Plus the script function that uberdata has now was a standard for Crome. Sorry it took so long to reply, had to wait until my son went to sleep to jump online..

 

Falcon,

The weird thing is when everyone started selling chipped ecu's they never had the additional jumpers that Uberdata requested. Hondata does not request those to be jumped as well. I recall asking people online why does uberdata require the extra's and the response was to filter noise so the car won't throw a code for no reason. That response did not really make sense and if your like me I am lazy so I did not want to solder any more since the ecu was already socketed for the generic skunk program.

 

is the 3 bar option still only on the version that is not free?

i want to mess around with it.. but don't even have a car to put uberdata on right now.

 

uberdata doesn't rquire anything more than the j1 jumper. you dont need the resistor or the capicitors but they are highly reccomended as they ensure smooth voltage delivery and aid in surge prevention.

 

It irritates me you say that uberdata requires the two capacitors. That indicates to me you do not know how chipping works. That also indicates to me that you think you do. Uberdata operates no differently on a coded rom level than chrome or hondata (excluding hondata's integration witht he blue box).

Uberdata doesn't require the 4 extra soldering locations, but it is recommended (as it is recommended with any other chipping solution.)

Do me a favor, know what you are talking about before you post things that scare people off. It makes me angry becuase I've put a lot of effort into promoting uberdata (as has everyone on this board), and when it is discredited by a moot point it makes me quite annoyed. Not to mention all the time blake puts into this to be ridiculed by a newbie. Ok?

On a final note, even if uberdata did require 4 extra soldering locations. After soldering the 20 pin chip, j1 and 28 pin chip, you have soldered basically 50 spots. An extra 4 is rather superfluous at that point.

 

Wow.. I am usually an open guy and not really easily offended. Maybe I did not make myself clear in the earlier post. I tried Uberdata numerous times with my setup. I tried all of the included base maps that came with Uberdata. I downloaded other bin files from pgmfi.org NONE of them worked regardless of what sensors were enable or disabled. Maybe I have the one in a million ECU that does not work with Uberdata, however I do know only from my personal experience that it did not work for me.. Crome worked right off the back using the same bin that did not work in Uberdata.. Go figure. Topic is Opinons on Uberdata mine is "It's Free! You Can't Go Wrong If It Works On Your ECU".

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dabrown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Falcon,

The weird thing is when everyone started selling chipped ecu's they never had the additional jumpers that Uberdata requested. Hondata does not request those to be jumped as well. I recall asking people online why does uberdata require the extra's and the response was to filter noise so the car won't throw a code for no reason. That response did not really make sense and if your like me I am lazy so I did not want to solder any more since the ecu was already socketed for the generic skunk program. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thats some crazy **** right there. i've never seen anything where uberdata required more hardware soldered in than hondata. as a matter of fact, Honda, the people who had the ECU made, made space on the board for those components because they are intended to be there. look at your ECU , there are - - - lines all the way around all the components used for chipping. they should all be installed. period.if you do not install them you are running the risk of having the ECU drop into limp mode if anything happens to the data interface between the 66k processor and your rom chip.

sorry to put my electrical engineering hat on but you people need to know this.

i have no explanation as to why uberdata worked and crome didnt, but i'll bet you $20 it had nothing to do with those caps.

for now, uberdata is for people who know what they are doing. right down to the assembly langauge level, and crome is a bit more user friendly. i have no experience with crome or its capabilities. it was probably easier for you to set up right. it cannot have anything to do with the caps.

 

Pardon my ignorance in chipping, and by no means is this asked in a sarcastic manner, but 94goldjungsr or Falcon, why is it that c51 and c52 be recommended to be soldered? I've done searches and got images of ecus chipped for Hondata and I saw both locations (c51/52) soldered. Most of the pictorials gave a breakdown of what gets soldered where, but I don't see any mention of those 2 locations. I may also not be looking in the right places for this info.

I'm trying to get educated with ecu tuning, and I don't know if this is common knowledge with chipping or not.

EDIT: Nevermind. You posted before I saw your post.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dabrown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow.. I am usually an open guy and not really easily offended. Maybe I did not make myself clear in the earlier post. I tried Uberdata numerous times with my setup. I tried all of the included base maps that came with Uberdata. I downloaded other bin files from pgmfi.org NONE of them worked regardless of what sensors were enable or disabled. Maybe I have the one in a million ECU that does not work with Uberdata, however I do know only from my personal experience that it did not work for me.. Crome worked right off the back using the same bin that did not work in Uberdata.. Go figure. Topic is Opinons on Uberdata mine is "It's Free! You Can't Go Wrong If It Works On Your ECU". </TD></TR></TABLE>

Your opinion on that matter is fine, express it all day. I never discouraged you from posting that. I do discourage you from posting that it requires extra capacitors to use uberdata- that is simply not true.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dinuguan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pardon my ignorance in chipping, and by no means is this asked in a sarcastic manner, but 94goldjungsr or Falcon, why is it that c51 and c52 be recommended to be soldered? I've done searches and got images of ecus chipped for Hondata and I saw both locations (c51/52) soldered. Most of the pictorials gave a breakdown of what gets soldered where, but I don't see any mention of those 2 locations. I may also not be looking in the right places for this info.

I'm trying to get educated with ecu tuning, and I don't know if this is common knowledge with chipping or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Both falcon and I have already posted why in this thread.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94goldjungsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
. I do discourage you from posting that it requires extra capacitors to use uberdata- that is simply not true.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry, I was just reading the F.A.Q that was posted for Uberdata..

Uberdata F.A.Q (Blake)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) What EXACTLY do I need to chip my ecu and tune it with this program?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

* First, you must make sure your ecu is an OBD1 (came in 1992-95) honda
civic/integra ECU (engine control unit).

* Second, get your hardware supplies. You need one - 1/4 Watt 1.0k resistor, two
0.1uF Ceramic Disc capacitors, one 74HC373 IC, and a 28-pin 29c256 eprom.
I get my chippling supplies from radio shack and jdr.com. Radioshack wont have the eproms

* third, chip your ecu. Heres a guide form pgmfi.org (Remove the cover from your ECU and follow these instructions):
"1. Desolder all holes for the components.
2. Solder in a 28 pin socket. (Empty footprint)
3. Solder in the 74HC373. (Empty footprint)
4. Solder a 1.1K ohm resistor into R54 location marked in white lettering (not needed on P72 USDM GSR) (Note: 1K - 10K resistors seem to work ok. This is a simple pull up/pulldown resistor. 1K resistors seem to work well with ROM emulators that have trouble with 10k resistors)
5. Solder in two 0.1uF ceramic disc capacitors into C51 and C52.
6. Solder in J1. This jumper can activated by utilizing an unused resistor lead or extra section of spare wire.
7. Insert the 28 pin DIP PROM in the proper orientation and start the car.

 

ok what the caps do:

the are basically filters on the power supply pins for the sn74hc373 and the 29c256.

they are little buckets of current that the chips can use when they are driving signals out of them or consuming power internally.

all digital logic devices use power in quantized chunks. in other words they do not draw power smoothly, linearly like a light bulb.

so, on this ECU board, and every computer, you have a dozen or more chips on it, all sucking down power in instantaneous chunks, usually all at the same time (synchronized by an external clock). when these chips suck down the power, the voltage on the power supply traces actually drops. this can cause nearby chips to malfunction, or for the actual chip itself to malfunction and fail, sending invalid data.

basically you have to have the caps installed so that they dont brown out and they always provide valid signals to the other chips they talk to.

they are also called decoupling caps cause they literally decouple the chips from the surrounding chips so they dont interfere with eachother.


here is where it gets confusing.

some ecus will work without the caps, and the reasons arent easily explained or understood, but i will tell you right now you're operating the board out of spec and theres no guarantee the board will work 100% of the time. in my opinion there is absolutely no reason not to install those caps, and doing so is a gamble that is way more risky than the cost of a couple 10 cent caps.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dabrown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sorry, I was just reading the F.A.Q that was posted for Uberdata..

Uberdata F.A.Q (Blake)
[insert meaningful crap here]
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, it is in there becuase it is highly recommended no matter what ROM you are using. ECu's can function without them, but to not put it in the FAQ would be to discredit its use. I see now that you have misunerstood the nature of the capacitors and essentially made an argument that was misinterpreted by the information presented to you. It's all good just as long as I dont see you do it again

 

after following the development of blake's software, and grasping a hint of his general character (very biased and skewed i realize) i would make an educated guess that he did not feel it was necessary to explain to the end user the need for filter capacitors, he simply made it a necessity for the funtional set-up, just like his directions to use EEPROMs, where most likely 27 series UV EPROMs will work as well.

seeing as uberdata was conceptualized with the purpose to be a commercial ROM editor i can see why he decided to do that. he is a cool guy, from what i gather and his software provides an alternative to the pricey ECMs.

we are all splitting hair. just as with any software made for educational purpose, anyone who is considering using it should educate themselves to their best knowledge on the fundamentals of that software and principals of chipping. it really is not that hard.

apologies it i had inadvertently offended anyone pertaining to uberdata and blake.
stan

 

Sweet info! Thanks Falcon.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falconGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">ok what the caps do:

the are basically filters on the power supply pins for the sn74hc373 and the 29c256.

they are little buckets of current that the chips can use when they are driving signals out of them or consuming power internally.

all digital logic devices use power in quantized chunks. in other words they do not draw power smoothly, linearly like a light bulb.

so, on this ECU board, and every computer, you have a dozen or more chips on it, all sucking down power in instantaneous chunks, usually all at the same time (synchronized by an external clock). when these chips suck down the power, the voltage on the power supply traces actually drops. this can cause nearby chips to malfunction, or for the actual chip itself to malfunction and fail, sending invalid data.

basically you have to have the caps installed so that they dont brown out and they always provide valid signals to the other chips they talk to.

they are also called decoupling caps cause they literally decouple the chips from the surrounding chips so they dont interfere with eachother.


here is where it gets confusing.

some ecus will work without the caps, and the reasons arent easily explained or understood, but i will tell you right now you're operating the board out of spec and theres no guarantee the board will work 100% of the time. in my opinion there is absolutely no reason not to install those caps, and doing so is a gamble that is way more risky than the cost of a couple 10 cent caps.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm thinking this is why my car is sometimes hesitating... VERY interesting info. Every once in a while my ECU basically shuts off for a millisecond. Basically like a hiccup. Just cruising along today the car jolted, the a/f went to full then, then in a split second jumped to full rich, hesitated, went lean, and then began scrolling around stoich. It's almost like the chip got jolted loose but with the 3m "vibration resistant" ZIF I just find that too unlikely. So perhaps I have a capacitor problem.

My question is, why are the capacitors the size they are?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My question is, why are the capacitors the size they are? </TD></TR></TABLE>

you mean the capacitive value of 0.1 uf? again, not a simple answer. basically the particular cap is chosen for its physical size as well as its capacitance.

the physical size is important cause size of the cap determines its inductance, which, it turns out, is more important than its capacitance at high frequency. so, i dont have a simple answer for you but i will tell you that a same size cap of higher value (like a 1uF) will work the same.

i will tell you this, if you ask 90% of the electrical engineers out there, they will give you a generic response that really doesnt answer the question - because, until recently, there was no need to worry about this and there wasnt a scientific method for determining what capacitors should be used for a given application. you threw a bunch on and hoped it work in all cases. thats going to change soon, as computer speeds keep going up, and this shoot-from-the-hip approach will no longer work.

 

Blah

 

boo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dabrown &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea if you notice Uberdata requires that you solder 2 additional location compared to any other Rom Editing software. I tried loading plenty of different base maps into Uberdata and none worked. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against Uberdata just that Crome worked without any issues and it's just a little bit easier on the eyes.. Plus the script function that uberdata has now was a standard for Crome. Sorry it took so long to reply, had to wait until my son went to sleep to jump online.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, god. That's it, first fucktard b and now this. I can't leave you people unattended for for a whole day, can I?

Lemme guess, you never disabled the KS in any of those basemaps you burned, huh? I left KS set in the VTEC base maps I created because I hate stunnaz and VTEC, so I made sure that only intelligent people with VTEC and stunnaz without VTEC could use my basemaps.

And, if you had a clue about the derivation of Crome's boost code, you would know johncui jacked Blake's code. It's the same damn thing - HONDA CODE - and the reason you couldn't get Uberdata to work is because you don't know what you are talking about.

Personally, I'd wish johncui and Blake had communicated with each other a little better instead of pissing all over one another. Johncui likes to polish his editor whereas Blake likes to code MCUs in assembler... the two bitches should be married to each other, each doing half the work, but instead things are the way they are.

In the future, memorize the complete PGMFI archives before you venture nouveaux opinions.

 

J. Davis....are you sure you arent one of those fat black ladies in the audience of the Rickie Lake show?

All i can say is "YOU GO BOY!"

 

There you go, bigwig, me and a black hooker courtesy of the guys at homemadeturbo.com

Is everyone happy now?

 

at least you kept your pants on, unlike blakes pic post.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

first fucktard b and now this.</TD></TR></TABLE>

interesting