-Old Info:

I have been running the same DSM T-25 turbo on my Rio for about 3 months now with no major problems. I blew a header gasket, though, and this past weekend I made a gasket out of copper and installed it. In the process I removed the entire turbo system and put it back together. I noted only a thin film of oil near the lowest point of the intercooler piping. I cleaned it all out, then degreased the engine, replaced the gasket, and put it all back together. Here is a pic of my setup:



What it is, per regulations:
It's a top-mounted TD05 with 2.5" intercooler pipes going to a small FMIC. The oiling system works and I rebuilt the turbo when I installed it about 5000 miles ago. The header is an equal-length design made by me, which is more than adequate for my goal of 7 psi. The downpipe is also hand-made, 2.5" leading to a 3" flex pipe and cat, small 1-3/4" stock midpipe and a Flowmaster muffler. I have a basic "Type-I" BOV, and the only mod to the turbo is an adjustable wastegate actuator. The intercooler pipes have too much volume for this little turbo but I am happy with the slower spool because I don't want too much torque off the line.

Now here is my problem, that has just arisen: Smoke. White smoke. Not a lot, but enough to be an embarrassment. After troubleshooting the problem I have found the following symptoms:

1) The smoke only appears when I make more than 3 psi. If I open the wastegate up I can't make it smoke even revving it to redline.

2) When it does smoke, it does so a few seconds after my BOV opens, or after making boost, when the engine feels vacuum again.

3) I installed a clear fuel filter in my PCV hose:



In order to see how much blowby oil I get. I have noticed a significant amount.

4) The spark plugs appear oily and soot is in the exhaust ports of the head along with the exhaust system.


So, I am leaning toward blowby oil being the cause of the oil getting in the cylinders and causing the smoking. I think the PCV valve might have begun letting oil past, and the mere fact that I make more boost thanks to the header gasket being fixed is causing the oil to blow by when the engine transitions from boost to vacuum. Because of this I am planning on installing an oil catch can with filter to hopefully capture the oil before it gets in the engine. The engine runs beautifully besides this.

My question, basically, is do you think this is an accurate assessment? Does this sound like the common symptoms of having an improperly designed vacuum system in this non-OEM turbo car? -Or- is the amount of oil that is getting through, enough to moisten the spark plugs (on all 4 cylinders), soot up the exhaust and cause intermittent white smoke more likely the symptoms of a worse problem?


Thanks.


Modified by beepy at 3:07 AM 6/29/2004


Modified by beepy at 4:44 AM 7/16/2004

 

Additional note:

There is also some oil getting into the other blue silicone hose, which leads to the intake side of the turbo where my MAF sensor and filter are located.

Additional note 2:

I went out and tightened my BOV, then drove it again and did not see smoke. What?


Modified by beepy at 3:49 AM 6/29/2004

 

Anyone?

 

Update:

I went to Home Depot and bought a couple oil/water seperators, the kind that are used to keep oil from compressors out of the air hose for painting purposes.

I figure if anything will filter the oil out of the PCV system, that would be it.

I installed one in each of the PCV hoses. I drove it, pushing it to redline several times, and noticed much less smoke. But still a tiny bit, barely enough to see.

I checked several other things, and realized my BOV was not opening at all. I readjusted it, and that didn't stop the smoking, either, but again less than before.

After driving it several times, I noticed quite a lot of oil in that seperator.

Then I realized that the PCV hoses were backwards! I had the one without the PCV valve going to the throttle body this entire time! So I'm an idiot for that one.

Fixed that, still tiny amounts of smoke. But if the amount of oil that has built up in the seperator just from test drives has been building up in the intake this entire time, God knows how much oil is in the intake manifold. I know there was a good amount in the cylinders from checking the spark plugs!

So after fixing it, I ran some carb cleaner through, and put some fuel system cleaner in the fuel. Hopefully after this tank of gas burns up, I will have most of the oil out of the engine. Then I will change the plugs.

 

Well, that fixed it! The damned PCV hoses were causing all of the oil smoke and fouling plugs. What a pain in the ***.

Looks like I still need a new BOV, though. Thanks for all your help.

 

pcv is one of the more common problems of blowing oil on boosted motors that were not ment to be boosted. basicly what will happen if you leave it stock would be that as soon as you hit boost, the positive pressure on the one side of the pcv will cause it to shut. what that means is that your crankcase has nowere to breath or ventalate. this will cause it to try and breath by blowby. basicly with the stock setup pcv valve you will have blow by, nothing much you can do about it unless you run a catch can, and run the pcv open at all times by cutting the bottom valve part off of it.

 

It's just a good thing that I am only in boost like 1% of the time. I think the engine can stand blowby buildup for that much of the time.

I'm so happy that it's fixed. I am making full boost again (~7psi) and no smoke. But my BOV still sucks. I actually disconnected the BOV earlier today and it didn't change the noise the BOV makes at all... So that tells me the "noise" is what I don't want: Boost going back through the turbo.

So my next question: I have read a lot of the posts on here about BOVs. Most of them compare sound, or how much boost a BOV can hold, etc. What I want to know, is at my low level of boost, what BOV can I use so that I have reliable pressure release, but not have the valve pulled open easily by vacuum? Should I switch to a stock Bosch or DSM BOV? I still want to be able to hear it.

 

I've always been under 10psi and I've always used stock car bov's. They've all worked fine for me. I think that almost all bov's will be open during vacuum, no?

 

No, shouldn't be. It should take the vacuum and some boost to open it, otherwise it would always be open and there would be no residual boost in the charge pipes, which would cause the turbo to start leaking.

I want a BOV that will open with low boost but not under full engine vacuum only.

 

the bosch blow off valves are made of plastick, and they are cheap pieces of crap.
a first gen dsm blow off valve is good for low boost, and its pretty loud. best part is you can pick one up for about $40

 

Hmm. I will try a DSM BOV then. Might as well, since I'm using a DSM turbo.

 

you know you are loosing quite a bit of power from that very large piping.
it doesn't just make your car spool; later

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you know you are loosing quite a bit of power from that very large piping.
it doesn't just make your car spool; later</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am already making new pipes. It was a mistake, I wanted aluminum pipes so I bought some cheap CAIs to make the pipes. I bought them from a company that I had bought from before that usually made 2" pipe, but when I received these ones I discovered they were 2.5 and 3" pipe.

So I am making 2" steel pipes. This is the same size as the intercooler inlets and the turbo outlet. Plus I won't have a ****-ton of connectors. I would get aluminum but I don't have the equipment to weld aluminum.

Regardless, I wouldn't say I am "losing" power. My goal is not to make as much power as mechanically possible, but rather a simple 125hp to the wheels.

 

I bought a 1st-gen DSM BOV and 2" pipes to make new charge pipes.

Once I get that done (and finally get around to enlarging my exhaust) I should see a much faster spool.

 

you wouldbe lossing power since the turbo you are using is not ment to push the amount of cfm's that is needed to fill the piping and the intake manifold.

 

if you want a quiet exhaust but still want a quick spool when you want to go faster, you should just get an e-cutout. its cheaper than any exhaust you can buy and it will net more power than any other exhaust. but since it makes you run open downpipe when you open it from the controler in your car, it is VERY loud when it is open. but very quiet at all other times depending on the exhaust you are using with it

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98gsrTEG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you wouldbe lossing power since the turbo you are using is not ment to push the amount of cfm's that is needed to fill the piping and the intake manifold. </TD></TR></TABLE>

nah

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you wouldbe lossing power since the turbo you are using is not ment to push the amount of cfm's that is needed to fill the piping and the intake manifold. </TD></TR></TABLE>

On that note it would be great to get rid of my Mi-Tech intake manifold for something more like you guys tend to use, with short, wide runners. But not in the cards, I'm afraid.

 

Okay, I made new 2" intercooler pipes:




The top pipe is not painted yet because I am still waiting for my DSM BOV to arrive, and I have to weld on and finish it.

But should help with boost lag. I still have to finish the exhaust....

 

Just a new pic:



Finished the install of the DSM BOV, painted the upper pipe, and installed a Mugen strut bar. Had to fabricate the brackets to make it fit.

For anybody who wonders why a Kia guy is hanging around a Honda site, that's why. Half of the "mods" for my car have come from modifying Honda Civic stuff.

I need to do something with the valve cover. Krylon Fusion paint + heat = ugly mess. Lesson learned. Then I am trying to get a stainless steel header to replace my hand-made header. I have actually noticed that several "equal length" turbo headers for the B-series engine have the same design as my header. Just upside down and with the wrong flanges. I hope to be able to get one cheap, find a place to cut stainless flanges for me, then have a professional welder put them together.

Speaking of which, has anyone here had to source custom flanges? Where did you do it? I have emailed countless waterjet and laser cutting businesses, and nobody wants to do a small order without charging an arm and a leg.

 

wow, that is nice.

 

Thanks, wenlyone.

I changed my plugs today. All of the plugs had a nice tan color to them. That's what I like to see! Not running lean, certainly. Just wish I could tune my fuel and ignition tables. I am thinking of running a S-AFC, because several Tiburon owners I have talked to have used them with success.