mrx

Hallo,

i installed my black top dsm's (450ccm) today and now i have a very stange mixture problem. i remapped the fuel maps for 450ccm injectors and run extrem too rich... then a few seconds later or when i play with tha gas i run extremly lean.

the fuel map is based uppon the stock B16A1 fuel map so i think thats not the problem, the map is just rescaled for 450ccm and Closed-Loop is disabled.

while driving the mixture switches at a set driving condition (rpm,map pressure) sometimes from 9:1 to 19:1

what can that be???

when i installed the injectors i noticed that the dsms are a bit shorter then the original honda's so now the are not at the bottom of the seal in the intake manifold... they are aprox. 2-3mm out of the lowest possible position.

Thanks
Malte.

evosol

what are you using to tune them with?

mrx

its a development rom from pgmfi.org not released at the moment.
but i don't think that it is the management, because when i remap a totaly stock rom for 450ccm i get the same problem, when i do this i run extreamly lean (~20:1) so engine will stall without put some throttle on it... driving is not possible in this case...

can it have something to do that the injectors are not in the correct position? (does a few mm make such an effect?) or maybe one or two injectors are broken/blocked?

Thanks
Malte.

evosol

i personally run 450ccs with no probs, along with tons of other people. i dont think that the injector length is a prob. I would try a stable version of anyone of the rom editors to see if its the rom editor your using.

mrx

its definitive not the rom, because i have the problem also with the stock program and the maps rescaled fot 450ccm's
the editor i use for the stock rom is my own editor i use for severyl years without problems and it makes the same results as the development editro für the boost rom is used first so i don't think there is a problem there.

when you write that's normal that the dsm's are shorter then i guess it don't make any difference in fuel supply to the engine when the injector is not completely down in the seal?!

nonvtecD

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">its a development rom from pgmfi.org not released at the moment.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's going to be hard for us to diagnose the problem if we don't know what you're running the injectors with. Tons of people run DSM 450's with no problems just by following simple install directions and turning them down with several EMS's.

mrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nonvtecD &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's going to be hard for us to diagnose the problem if we don't know what you're running the injectors with. Tons of people run DSM 450's with no problems just by following simple install directions and turning them down with several EMS's.</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes thats right, but i think it won't help you if i tell you what rom is use because its not released and nobody else had used it before only the author (ben ogle) and me have a version at the moment for testing. He used it on a friends car with 450ccm's allready without no problem ... AND as i wrote two times befor, the stock programm remapped for 450ccm injectors has the same mixture problem as the development rom, so in MY eyes, its absolutly impossible that the ems has something to do with the problem.

i wonder why ppl allways ask about the ems when it is allready totaly clear that this is not the problem?!? so please don't ask such question, they don't help and i think now as you know what i'am using it doesn't help you more or am i wrong?!

today i will check if one or more injectors are blocked, thats the only possible solution for me right now and as far nobody has another idea i will check that first...

Best regards
Malte.

mrx

as it seems one injector was blocked... i put them out and checked them... now I'am able to produce a stable idle at 14.7:1 and a consistand mixture while driving with the stock program (without boost capability) how i will make a map for boost and check if this works...

one thing is a bit strange, when i remap the stock map for 450ccm injectors, the injector multiplier normaly has to be 240/450=0,533. But when i apply this multiplier i get a idle mixture of 19:1-20:1 i have played with the multiplier and got a multiplier of 0,67 working great for idle exactly 14.7:1 and driving 14:7:1 in part load and 13,5:1-13:1 at athmosphere pressure...

fuel pressure is stock!

can anyone explain this? for me there are only two solutions, 1) stock injectors are not 240ccm or 2) i have no 450ccm injectors!? but they are labeld as 450 on the injector and looks exactly like any other DSM 450ccm Black Top injector is see...

Thanks
Malte.

88 turbo crx

im sure you have 450's and 240s are definately stock. Glad you got the problem worked out. As far as your idle issue, id check other settings on your rom, not necessarily going to be a .533 scale down at idle, because the engine is supposed to run really lean at idle. So hope this helps

mrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88 turbo crx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im sure you have 450's and 240s are definately stock. Glad you got the problem worked out. As far as your idle issue, id check other settings on your rom, not necessarily going to be a .533 scale down at idle, because the engine is supposed to run really lean at idle. So hope this helps</TD></TR></TABLE>

when i scale down by factor 0,67 then the whole table mixture from high vacuum to athmosphere is absolutly perfect... 14,7:1 below 650mbar and 13.5:1 above 650mbar to 1000mbar...

so i think thats the right multiplicator...

do you think it is possible that the injectors are a bit old because they are used so that they can't give the full 450ccm? maybe i but a bottle of fuel system cleaner in and see if something changes...

Thanks
Malte.

88 turbo crx

Those fuel injection cleaner bottles are worthless, borrow a friends injectors and get some new orings when you put them on. Thats my suggestion
Mike