I'm not trying to start anything but I've been reading the post and the replies. I think you guys aren't really opening your minds to what people are saying. Most of the people are replying b/c they've been in this situation before and can shed some more light on what they see.

I personally think it's detonation. Trinh's EK and his EG had the same problem. Both looked just like that w/ 2 cylinders next to each other messed up and the remaining 2 looking perfect. But generally if you spec out the motor you'll have problems throughout.

Both detonated-one b/c of bad race gas and the other b/c it was too much boost on pump gas. But the critical part is that if the timing were retarded a little more then maybe those motors may still be running. So in the end it's still an issue of too much timing/to little fuel(octane). Both engines had totally different setups when it came to compression, bore, stroke, and even internals. His EK was a sleeved B16 w/ 9.1 CPs, and his EG was a sleeved B18C1 w/ 10.1 JEs. Both motors looked almost identical when he removed the head. I've seen a couple other blown up motors that had detonation issues but I don't know the specs of those so I won't speak directly about them. They all tend to look the same.

I say detonation-you all can argue about fuel, timing, and EGTs but I think it's detonation probably due to bad gas if the timing was soo conservative as yall keep emphasizing!! If yall didn't say anything about timing I'd have to say it was a timing issue. Maybe the injector drivers on a stock ECU can't handle it. I've never heard that but nothing's impossible when it comes to ******* a motor up.

 

Well this car has never seen pump gas.

but i would think if it were a gasoline issue, that all pistons would show signs of detonation.

but again , we will have to dig deeper into the fuel system and tear the motor down to really find out

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BLK JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not trying to start anything but I've been reading the post and the replies. I think you guys aren't really opening your minds to what people are saying. Most of the people are replying b/c they've been in this situation before and can shed some more light on what they see.

I personally think it's detonation. Trinh's EK and his EG had the same problem. Both looked just like that w/ 2 cylinders next to each other messed up and the remaining 2 looking perfect. But generally if you spec out the motor you'll have problems throughout.

Both detonated-one b/c of bad race gas and the other b/c it was too much boost on pump gas. But the critical part is that if the timing were retarded a little more then maybe those motors may still be running. So in the end it's still an issue of too much timing/to little fuel(octane). Both engines had totally different setups when it came to compression, bore, stroke, and even internals. His EK was a sleeved B16 w/ 9.1 CPs, and his EG was a sleeved B18C1 w/ 10.1 JEs. Both motors looked almost identical when he removed the head. I've seen a couple other blown up motors that had detonation issues but I don't know the specs of those so I won't speak directly about them. They all tend to look the same.

I say detonation-you all can argue about fuel, timing, and EGTs but I think it's detonation probably due to bad gas if the timing was soo conservative as yall keep emphasizing!! If yall didn't say anything about timing I'd have to say it was a timing issue. Maybe the injector drivers on a stock ECU can't handle it. I've never heard that but nothing's impossible when it comes to ******* a motor up.</TD></TR></TABLE>All very good points
The bottom line is a 10-1 engine running on 93 octane can not tolerate the same timing as a 9-1 engine running on 116 race gas
If everything is perfect and you get some bad gas, it will take the engine out in a matter of 10 seconds.
one last point...If a piston is slowly going bad slowly, it will hit a point where it starts to suck oil from the pan. That oil causes detonation and that can then take the motor out quickly.
This may explain why the original poster got 7 or 8 good runs and then quickly lost the motor.

 

You really need data-ac to find the problem. Did boost peak? Did fuel pressure drop? Did a plug wire spark jump to another?
Retarded timing and too much fuel will cause high EGT's, fuel still burning in the EX. This can also cause a valve to run hot, causing pre-ignition. Two flame fronts cause high cyl. temps that will melt a piston Without looking at the parts, or the data-ac. everything is just a guess.

 

boost didnt reach max boost, it hit 27.1 psi at one point which isnt max boost. overboosting has been ruled out.

 

Did it get spark scatter, or possibly starve the fuel pump, momentarily? How did the plug electrodes look? What color? What heat range? 9, 10, 0r 11 in NGK or Champion 59, 57, 55?

 

Matt, Don is making an excellent point with out datalogging we prob wont ever know

 

the electrode on 4 disappeared, #3 half disappeared.

mike i know what your saying but i was datalogging boost on that run so i do know that part.

 

That is detonation. Also did your battery voltage drop. If your vottage dropped your pump slowed down.


Modified by DonF at 7:53 PM 11/21/2006

 

electrodes disappearing is hard core detonation

 

 

my pump was running directly off the alternator, as soon as i get time to really tear everything down im gonna test the alternator.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jared &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">electrodes disappearing is hard core detonation</TD></TR></TABLE>


JARED AND BLK JDM FTW!! And like a million other folks who said detonation!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by earl &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If a piston is slowly going bad slowly, it will hit a point where it starts to suck oil from the pan. That oil causes detonation and that can then take the motor out quickly.
This may explain why the original poster got 7 or 8 good runs and then quickly lost the motor. </TD></TR></TABLE>

oooh, so maybe those particular CPs started to fail in the relief area as happens on a number of pistons I have read about, started sucking up vapors or oil and severly detonated taking out those two cylinders

this sounds plausible to me.

i'm sure the owner now understands the need to have a good data aquisition unit that can monitor a number of sensors, another being something along the lines of a J&S that would possibly show pinging in the log or perhaps pull timing if needed

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

oooh, so maybe those particular CPs started to fail in the relief area as happens on a number of pistons I have read about, started sucking up vapors or oil and severly detonated taking out those two cylinders

this sounds plausible to me.

i'm sure the owner now understands the need to have a good data aquisition unit that can monitor a number of sensors, another being something along the lines of a J&S that would possibly show pinging in the log or perhaps pull timing if needed</TD></TR></TABLE>

could be a good idea, about the oil vapors. what was the car using for catch can setup? could have been running a closed loop setup as well.

as for the J&S...I happen to have one for sale with monitor

 

bump for some pics, got around to taking that **** apart last night.








Modified by SPOOLINmatt at 10:52 AM 12/4/2006

 

NICEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

i took the cap off of 3, and that **** just FELL OUT. I didnt have to push or tap or nothing. number 4 DID NOT want to come out.

 

yeah, here in GA, when we break ****, we do it right!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPOOLINmatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i took the cap off of 3, and that **** just FELL OUT. I didnt have to push or tap or nothing. number 4 DID NOT want to come out. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Holy crap man! Hope you get that thing rebuilt quick atleast...goodluck with everything! Feel so bad when peoples engines blow...I know how it feels man. Just hang in there and tough it out!

 

any idea what would make the intake side crumple on #4? I would think that the exhaust side would take the most beating. Or could the detonation have taken out the intake side?