Alex Groh

My cxracing turbo has recently started smoking on 9psi.

First off, my build.

CP Pistions 81.5mm 10:5:1 Compression
Scat H Rods
81.5mm Cometic Head Gasket
ACL Racing Main Bearings
BC Valve springs/retainers
Exedy Stage 2 Clutch
550cc RC injectors
ARP Head Studs
ACL Rod Bearings
ACL Thrust Washers
Supertech Valve Lokcs
340lph Fuel Pump
Mishimoto FMIC
Tial 38mm Wastegate
Cxracing BoV
Strickly MT Oil Catch Can
3" Mandrel Exhaust
Cxracing Turbo Manifold (probably going to change this soon)
Stock LS intake manifold (I have a Golden Eagle that's going on soon)

Goals: 400whp+ (I want cams in the future) but, for now 300whp+

I was looking into the GT3076r, so anything in that price range will work for me. I want a fast spool but, don't want to sacrifice the top end power. I just wanted to see what anyone else's opinion is. I want to keep the LS head and not go vtec, it's just my decision.

boosted94gsr

Looks like a pretty solid setup overall, but you will need bigger injectors to make 400whp. Just a heads up. What fuel are you using? What ems?

Alex Groh

93 octane and a hondata s300

Geis

Hmmm, hard to beat a gt30 for those power goals as it fits them rather nicely. You could try ball bearing t3/t4s (50, 57, 60 trims would all work)
Don't quote me on this but I'm pretty sure theshodan would recommend the STC Hunter, ball Bearing of course. There's really a ton of options, can't go wrong with the gt30s though.

2kdrift

that or a surfer as the hunter wont make 400+ on pump gas

Edit: im really cluless about LS heads, but pretty sure you will need some extensive head work Ie: porting and cams to make anywhere near 400 HP, its gonna cost alot more then a b16 head will

Alex Groh

I already have a lot of head work done on my ls head. Such as, a shave and Port. Idk the exact numbers though. I want bc 404 cams, after those I think it'll be doable. At least, to what I believe.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

You can break 400 on stock LS ports, even a stock intake manifold. It's the OEM cam profile that really holds things back. A good set of cams and something like a Skunk2 Pro series/Blox intake manifold and a 68/70mm throttle body(port intake manifold inlet to match) would greatly help efficiency and to carry more power into the higher rpm range.

If you were aiming for the 600 club then I would definitely say port the head or source a P8R and possibly have it ported. LightningTeg was well into the 600s with his straight LS but it took serious head work, cams, intake manifold, a lot of boost pressure (28-32psi IIRC) on E85 to get there. To compare he's now running an even larger turbocharger on a vtec head and he's making the same power on stock ports and OEM cams running much less pressure. Not to mention with the vtec head his new, much larger turbocharger spools almost exactly the same as his smaller turbo with the LS head.

Do you remember how much the head/block were decked? Depending on the amount then in combination with 10.5:1 static compression it could put you beyond the "safe" limit in terms of knock resistance for the power you're wanting to make on 93. Running a thicker head gasket would help but either way I highly suggest a water/methanol injection kit ASAP. Typically for engine that are 10:1 static or higher aiming for 400+ on 93 it's basically a necessity to raise the detonation threshold. The other option is to convert over to E85 but I know it still isn't widely available depending upon location.

From what I remember the 404s are really an NA profile but apparently with proper degreeing and playing around with cam gear timing they are an improvement over OEM. However be prepared for a very choppy ilde even at elevated idle rpm. I know the 303s or whatever used to be the "hot" cam for 400+ turbo LS motors. Granted the Crower profiles are fairly dated in their design in comparison to recently released B VTEC profiles. Sadly the LS head just isn't a viable option for most companies to invest the time and money in developing new cam profiles.

If you want a custom tailored camshaft profile talk to set DDTECH. He does some pretty awesome grinds for all sorts of Honda engines, even the bastards like my F22A1.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

In regards to the STC turbo options...

What's holding him back is his static compression ratio, 93 octane, and no knock supression supplement like water/methanol injection.

Even though the Hunter is a 53lb/min turbo, which his setup could fully utilize if running E85, is that much over 400hp the boost levels he would be running would raise cylinder pressures beyond the knock supression limits of 93. He could move up to a larger turbocharger like the Silver Surfer and make the same power at lower boost pressures, likely being just within the knock limits of 93. Obviously with the turbocharger being larger it would be a bit slower in terms of initial response, transient response, and shift recovery. How much is hard to say since both turbochargers would utilize different timing maps and a different total advance value and so forth.

Either way though, like I said above, a water/methanol injection kit would greatly increase the margin of safety and allow for a slight increase in overall power while allowing for more aggressive ignition advance elsewhere in the rpm range which would translate into more power and torque under the curve, possibly more stable boost control and a tad bit faster response. How much more aggressive would depend on factors like injection starting pressure, injection amount, injection rate (how long it takes the system to reach the maximum injection volume. Typically only applies if using a PWM system like Aquamist which modulates flow and has proven to be far superior to literally every other kit that I either off or maximum injection amount), water/methanol mixture ratio, nozzle placement, nozzle design (coolingmist makes some of the best atomizing nozzles, Aquamist also has nice nozzles but in tests CM won), injection pump pressure and so forth.

Alex Groh

So, basically, I'd be better off ditching the ls head and going for a vtec one due to fuel, knock, and head flow. Not to mention more aftermarket support. But, my question for that convertion would be, would my parts in block be compatable?

Edit: But, if I wanted to keep the ls head, I would need cams for sure, I have my golden eagle intake, get meth injection and would need to switch over to e85. My car is actually set up for e85, but went with 93 at the last minute (can't remember why). I also have a high/low boost switch that, right now, switches me between 5psi and 9psi (idk if it makes a difference). Also, if I change my end power goals to 350whp does that change anything?

boosted94gsr

Lightningteg had a stock port pr4 head with crower spring, retainers, 404 cams, and a victor x im iirc.
I just swapped in a set of Brian crower stage 2 na cams, very similar to crower 403 spec. These cams really woke my ls up. It's street/track tuned so no dyno numbers, but with the cams I picked up over 4mph in trap speed at the same boost level. My car idles the same as it did with stock cams and picked up a lot of power past 5k rpm.

boosted94gsr

If e85 is an option you should definitely go that route. You don't need meth injection with e85 btw. Just keep it simple and through a set of cams in your ls head and have it tuned on e85. You are gonna need injectors much bigger then 550cc though.

Alex Groh

I might just put cams on it on 93 and see what it does, if I don't like I'll change something. But, back on topic, do you guys think the gt3076r is a good choice? Is there anything, better or more suited to my set up?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Due to head flow and aftermarket support, the VTEC head is a bit easier to contend with. Fuel and knock are completely unrelated issues that have to be dealt with whichever head you decide to use.

Parts in the block would be compatible provided you use a proper LS/VTEC conversion kit. Golden Eagle is the first the comes to mind.

As stated. You would run Meth/pump gas. Not Meth/E85. The point of these fuels is to have a higher tolerance to resist knock. You don't put Methanol AND E85 together.

Your power goals down 50whp doesn't change much, just the amount of knock resistance needed to perform it. That depends upon the turbocharger you're using. Don't worry about the pressure so much. If the engine is reinforced enough to take more power and higher cylinder pressures, boost pressure is not that relevant.

Look, there's no easier way around this. You must invest more than you think either way, be it a VTEC w/ LS/VTEC kit, or massage the LS head with port/cams/etc.. It's a matter of preference at this point. The work still has to be done, with the right turbocharger chosen.

Note to Wantboost: When Lightningteg switched turbochargers, the inducer of his new Interceptor was smaller than the previous MKI Reaper. The exducer of the Interceptor was over 5mm larger than the exducer of the MKI Reaper, so there were some changes that made better overall powerband while creating better responsiveness in a slightly smaller size and compressor wheel configuration.

Geis

But he wants to know more about the gt30 shodan!
Seriously though, if anything I don't see why the gt30 wouldn't be fine for your goals, it'll either get you there or pretty damn close. With e85 or meth injection, shouldn't even be that difficult as wantboost said, the cams and IM are necessary though I am not sure if a porting is 100%
Btw @wantboost, I believe he said the turbo actually spools 750 rpms quicker than the old setup

On a sidenote: not that this is nearly the best for your goals... but I saw a youtube vid the other day of a guy running a completely stock b18c1 (with only upgraded pistons/rods, not sure what kind) and he got I want to say 520whp/520wtq with meth injection on his bw s256. He didn't even pull the engine to change the pistons and rods... popped off the head and oil pan, did a light honing and dropped the new ones in. On pump gas he was getting around 450 whp... only around 150-200 lbs ft @5k rpms and then the torque curve literally went straight up.. any thoughts @TheShodan?

boosted94gsr

Are you talking about this guy? He used Nippon Pistons and eagle rods made like 450whp on pump, then dropped forged Pistons in added meth injection and made over 500whp. His car is awd too. He is a member here, he's the same guy that has a recent thread about the obd2 auto turbo integra. Sorry that was way off topic lol.

Geis

ITS THE SAME GUY WITH THE AUTO TURBO?
:DDDDD
Bro that's awesome, I saw some vids about an auto turbo on his channel and was thinking of the build thread I saw here... and yeah man his build is nuts
He made over 500 lbs ft....over 500 with the meth injection on that nippon b18c. I literally am still in disbelief. That torque curve was beyond insane.

P.S I think I'm going to make a sticker out of his 'boost inside' profile pic on youtube lol

2kdrift

dont know where u saw 500hp/500 tq

he made 420HP in that vid

also that sticker has already been made

Geis

My bad guys I misread the dyno in that video, the damn camera was so shaky it was hard to see. He made 516whp and it looks like nearly 400 lbs ft... still insane numbers for a practically stock engine. Here's the timestamp:

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Testing has shown water/methanol injection with E85 delivers pretty amazing results. High power single turbo 2JZ Supra picked up 100hp/100tq at the same boost level after tuning.

Alex Groh

Okay, so back on topic. I bought the gt3076r and it's on its way.