lolz... thx dude... i have a feeling i'll need it

 

Please get yourself a Helms manual for your car

http://www.helminc.com

Noid light is for testing injector pulse

Checking for spark is different

 

it might be easier to just hold the injectors up to your ears? If you don't hear ticking noise, then the injectors are not opening up from the pulse, or you may not be getting any signals to the injectors at all, that where the noid comes in.? If you get an ear full of fuel, then problem fixed =].

perhaps you've wired them wrong all this time, and it took 7 month of the injectors to fry. I would double check the resistance on the resistor box for each connection to the injectors for ***** and giggles, re seat the ecu plugs, and if you get a chance, that noid injector tester sounds promising.

ps. The Noid is not the same thing is the Dominoes Pizza Noid

 

So far you know the pump and main relay are working.

Gas gets to the injectors, but nothing sprays out. It could either be dead injectors, dead ecu (at least just the injector circuit), a dying pump (you can have flow, but no pressure), a big-time short in the wiring. Don't rule that out either, I've had many instances where what I suspected the least (and didn't double-check) was the issue. As for the pump, if it can move gas but not make any pressure, then its dead.

Its unlikely that all four injectors would die within 10 miles, but if they did, they'd go one at a time. When only 1 or 2 were left, it would run/sound like a lawn mower running very slowly. If it was the wiring (a short), it could burn out hte ecu's circuits. Running peak/hold injectors with saturated injector drivers will overheat and kill the circuit.

If its the injectors, you'll get voltage sent to the connectors. If its the wiring, you'll get a short/no voltage. If its the resistor box, you'll read something less or MUCH greater (or nothing) than 6-12ohms between the ground and possitive lead. If its the ecu, then you'll just not see any voltage at the connectors and the injectors will work on another car.


To make a long story short, DSM injectors are usually the 1st thing changed on those cars to make them make more reliable power. The only time I've had more than 2 dead injectors was last dsm removal (for some oddball oem honda injectors) - I'd have to guess 3 where dead, and the 4th was leaking.

 

thanks for all the info... i will be checking my local auto store for that noid light... prolly pick up a volt meter as well.... i have about a week and a 1/2 to fix this issue then i have to move... i really dont have much time or cash handy... thx for all your help. please keep checking the thread for updates, this is honestly more serious then you think. once again, thx all

Ps. i wasnt sure but i was going to check Dominoes before auto zone


Modified by boostnubII at 12:14 PM 10/20/2006

 

Open your ecu and smell the inside...if it smells the least bit burned, you have had a complete failure because of the wiring, injectors, or resistors. This is the reason we do not use P/H injectors and especially do not use DSM injectors. More than likely the ecu is toast and you will need a new one.

And for the love God, if you swap ecu's and it works, don't think you have fixed the problem....you have just found the problem and still need to fix it.!

 

I JUST USED A INLINE IGNITION TESTER... NO SPARK!

can that in any way effect the injectors to not fire?

no fried smell in ecu*

 

^^

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1483855

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostnubII &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I JUST USED A INLINE IGNITION TESTER... NO SPARK!

can that in any way effect the injectors to not fire?

no fried smell in ecu*</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmmm... No spark, no fuel. Makes sense that its not going to run. Now. Step back. Ask yourself...

"what controls BOTH fuel and spark and could have been negatively effected by poor injector resistor box wiring?"

I would start there. Get a KNOWN good ECU, see if the car starts. Don't run it for long, just see if it fires. Go from there.

Also, please explain to me how you know the fuel pump was maxed out? Stock pumps have been shown to support 300whp without any issues. Why is yours now suddenly dying at 200whp?

 

i will explain more about the fuel pump when i get back from Wal-Mart A/F ratios etc... going to go look for a GOOD volt meter.... the one at Kreagan was a POS... but i just check for power going to the injectors... the injectors do have power... i just need a volt meter so i can check for ground... does anyone know the mark to check Ground on a volt meter....AC? i have no idea....
but the injectors ARE getting POWER...i dont know how much.... but i will know when i get back from wallymart

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostnubII &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i will explain more about the fuel pump when i get back from Wal-Mart A/F ratios etc... going to go look for a GOOD volt meter.... the one at Kreagan was a POS... but i just check for power going to the injectors... the injectors do have power... i just need a volt meter so i can check for ground... does anyone know the mark to check Ground on a volt meter....AC? i have no idea....
but the injectors ARE getting POWER...i dont know how much.... but i will know when i get back from wallymart </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes, please do explain.

Set the voltmeter to continuity and then check from the ground side of the plug to the negative terminal on the battery or the frame of the car.

 

during the 2nd run... @ 6008 rpms AFR was reading 13.28 @ 102 mph... the tuner saw that the motor started to run lean then decided to stop the dyno. he was saying that the fuel wasnt keeping up and since it was a stock fuel pump that might very well be the reason... AFR was pretty much the same on the 2nd run as well...
here are the specs on the last run before the tuner (Shawn Church) stopped the dyno.

AFR 13.28
mph 102
rpm 6008
ratio 4.140
lbft 191.1
hp 218.3
vacuum -10.96
boost 9.58

opinions?

*thx for help finding ground*
i will post results in a sec... i am assuming car does not have to be on to find ground which should be constant correct?

 

My advice would be to get new injectors (I don't know what car it is but saturated I'm assuming) and retune. If it still doesn't work, get a new ECU.

Stop dicking around with DSM's.. I don't see why everyone likes em.

 

injectors are ALL getting POWER and GROUND...


PROBLEM(s)

** no spark... i took the distributor apart and checked coil and ignition moduel... both are in great condition...pulled spark plug out and grounded, turned key...no spark...even used inline ignition tester...nothing

*** no injector spray... all injectors are getting solid power (11.45) and ground... fuel getting to fuel rail... fuel pump primes and sends fuel...pressure: unknown (?)

**** ecu: opened ecu, nothing fried... no bad or different smell... when key in car is turned, GREEN LIGHT in USB port comes ON (HONDATA s300) if there was a short in wires or ecu was toast HONDATA s300's"Automatically" throws a RED LIGHT showing there is a issue with the car's wiring (it did it when my main relay fried my wire harness underdash 8 months ago)

Q:
what else could prevent the car from giving spark

Q:
if injectors have solid power and ground... what is preventing fuel spray.

more details from day 1:

***the day the car died the motor GRADUALLY lost powerover about a total of 10 miles, died about 2 times at stop lights, had to keep pushing gas and turning the key to get it moving again...when it would start after the dead stop, no matter how much i pushed on the gas the motor would stay at a very low idol as if i wasnt pushing the gas at all then would catch and start accepting fuel and i would be able to give the motor gas... while trying to get home over about 8 miles of freeway driving, i was unable to climb into high RPM's even @ FULL THROTTLE to keep with normal freeway speeds... i would have to downshift into 4th or 3rd to gain speed until the motor just died from fuel loss and ending up along the side of the road.***

thx again guys


Modified by boostnubII at 7:16 PM 10/21/2006


Modified by boostnubII at 7:35 PM 10/21/2006

 

INJECTORS are Peak And Hold 450cc's
car is 95 civic ex
motor specs listed page1

trust me.... i would love to just up and get new injectors... but i have a time and money shortage... i need to find the problem SPECIFICALLY and fix ONLY that problem... i dont have any cash to burn "dicking around" fixing things that can wait till later.

*( no disrespect intended )
keep the ideas commin... we're gettin close



Modified by boostnubII at 7:26 PM 10/21/2006

 

morning bump ^^

 

up

 

i am not reading any power going to the fuel pump (yellow/green wire)

 

*IF the distrubutor does not work... will that stop the injectors from spraying?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostnubII &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*IF the distrubutor does not work... will that stop the injectors from spraying?</TD></TR></TABLE>

If I recall correctly, yes. The injectors fire off the cps.