hmm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MidwestAutoWorks &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">any reason why someone wouldnt use these?

He claims all the way up to 1600 cc saturated

https://honda-tech.com/zero...55928</TD></TR></TABLE>

that's either a misprint or he doesn't know much about injectors...

The biggest saturated injector was the mototron 60lb until these new bosch came out that are 1000cc.

There's no such thing as a 1600cc saturated injector..

 

I don't think that guy knows what "saturated" means. Maybe because he has a lot of stock he's "saturated" with those sizes. lol

 

Also, for an update, tuned another car with these yesterday, a turbo K series. I didn't have anything to compare to power wise, but it made 451whp at 14.5psi on a T67 kit. I almost thought my wideband was off or something because the car would run so smooth even above 16:1 a/f because the fuel atomization was so good. No question at all that these run very noticably smoother than any other 1000cc injector on the market.

 

sweet........*i dont need to buy i have a good set up*---telling myself

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Turbo-charged &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had nearly the exact same problem.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just curious whether this might have been caused by running leaded fuel or anything? My saturated RC750s seem to be running a lot smoother and better than the 577cc injectors I was running before (even at idle), and I don't want to screw them up if I can avoid it!

 

i would be willing to bet that these variations in the peak and hold resistor box setups had alot to do with some of the blown motors around here as well

 

Man. I have really been wanting these. I maxed out my RC 750's and could really use a set of larger injectors

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HybridcivicLS-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sweet........*i dont need to buy i have a good set up*---telling myself</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed

 

Is there any advantage to using these injectors if you have a proper injector driver board setup for the peak and hold function (which I understand that you wouldn't need to run these)?

I guess to explain my question, if you are going to choose between low impedance injectors (pick the brand you feel is good) driven to proper peak and hold function as opposed to with a resistor box, and these 1000cc saturated injectors without a driver board, is there any benefit in terms of function?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tjabo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is there any advantage to using these injectors if you have a proper injector driver board setup for the peak and hold function (which I understand that you wouldn't need to run these)?

I guess to explain my question, if you are going to choose between low impedance injectors (pick the brand you feel is good) driven to proper peak and hold function as opposed to with a resistor box, and these 1000cc saturated injectors without a driver board, is there any benefit in terms of function?</TD></TR></TABLE>

does this not answer your question:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by locash &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Apparently, people cant seem to comprehend the fact that an ecu designed to run saturated (high impedance) injectors doesnt run peak/hold (low impedance) injectors perfectly, even with a resistor box. A resistor box does NOT replace the correct injector driver circuit in the ecu. You can only try so hard to educate them, if they dont get it, screw em. </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Not completely.

That tells me that it's less than optimal to run P&H injectors with resistor boxes, but what it doesn't get into is the relative merits of running each of the two options correctly.

I *assume* that running P&H injectors with proper driver circuits is just as good or better than running these saturated ones, but there has been some commentary in this thread about atomization, spray pattern, response time (opening time, whatever), etc. I'm just hoping someone will be able to flesh out this part discussion a bit.

 

Nothing at all wrong with using P&H injectors with the proper driver, they work great. Still not a 1000cc injector on the market with as good of a spray pattern and atmomization though.

 

T1

Thanks for the injectors and great service!

 

Maybe a dumb question but What exactly do the terms saturated and unsaturated actually mean?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boner_Ben &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Maybe a dumb question but What exactly do the terms saturated and unsaturated actually mean?</TD></TR></TABLE>

high impedence are saturated
low impedence are nonsaturated

personally i perfer the saturated style injector because of the spray pattern and like tony said "atominzation"(sp). the better the fuel mixes with the surrounding intake charge the better the burn and that equals MO BETTA an more power

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nothing at all wrong with using P&H injectors with the proper driver, they work great. Still not a 1000cc injector on the market with as good of a spray pattern and atmomization though. </TD></TR></TABLE>



Thanks for the answer by the way, I forgot to respond before I guess. . . Too much for me?

 

"saturated" has to do with the type of signal the ecu sends to control the injector. A saturated driver (what all honda ecus and most cheap aftermarket ecus have) sends a low current signal to the injector for the duration of the pulsewidth, generally .5-1amp. Big injectors generally have big heavy internals and don't open quickly or consistently with this type of signal. They need to be hit hard to open and then they will stay open with lower current. Hence "peak and hold". The driver sends a high current signal, usually 2-4 amps, to get the injector open and then drops to a "hold" current of .5-1 amp for the remainder of the injector duration.

Pairing a "peak and hold" injector on a saturated driver will kill the injector driver quickly because of the increased heat generated by driving a low resistance circuit. The bandaid fix for this is putting a resistor inline to keep the driver happy. This 'works' in the sense that it opens the injector and runs, but it doesn't control the injector properly and you gain inconsistency between your injectors in doing this. It's far from the right way to do things.

Tony413, a "saturated" injector has nothing to do with the spray pattern or atomization.

How many of you guys have tested these? We've done a lot of them since i made this post. I'll never use an RC injector again, that's for sure.

 

Thanks for educating me Tony! Seems like the saturated injectors are a no brainer for 1000's and smaller on these cars.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'll never use an RC injector again, that's for sure. </TD></TR></TABLE>

stop that . cuase i still want them but dont need them

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">"saturated" has to do with the type of signal the ecu sends to control the injector. A saturated driver (what all honda ecus and most cheap aftermarket ecus have) </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just to correct you, the earlier Honda ecu's (pre-92 Civic's/Integra's, etc) have peak/hold drivers, but nobody in their right mind tunes with these ecu's.

I just received 8 of these injectors from Tony for my B-series race car project, can't wait to use them..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by locash &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Just to correct you, the earlier Honda ecu's (pre-92 Civic's/Integra's, etc) have peak/hold drivers, but nobody in their right mind tunes with these ecu's.

I just received 8 of these injectors from Tony for my B-series race car project, can't wait to use them.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You sure about that? If they were peak and hold drivers then why do they have injector resistors on them? My guess is in that era there weren't any decent saturated injectors yet and they had to use peak and hold injectors but didn't want to spend the money on good drivers for the ecu?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Tony413, a "saturated" injector has nothing to do with the spray pattern or atomization.
. </TD></TR></TABLE>

really what does ? injector nozzle design

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tjabo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is there any advantage to using these injectors if you have a proper injector driver board setup for the peak and hold function (which I understand that you wouldn't need to run these)?

I guess to explain my question, if you are going to choose between low impedance injectors (pick the brand you feel is good) driven to proper peak and hold function as opposed to with a resistor box, and these 1000cc saturated injectors without a driver board, is there any benefit in terms of function?</TD></TR></TABLE>

P&H injectors with proper injector driver box (AEM or FJO) will work the injectors to full potential. However, besides the good spray pattern which Tony1 has mentioned on the Bosch units, you still cannot match the price for buying a set of brandname P&H injectors + driver box + install versus these Bosch injectors which are pretty much bolt-on installation.

 

Tony, I currently run RC 1000's on my set up. What will be the gains and improvements switching over to the Bosch injectors, what will be the most noticiable changes? Thanks!