hondata or chrome?
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: northern, ma, US
Re: (ramennoodles)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ramennoodles »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hehehe, if your gonna go to a tuner, just let them use whatever their most comfortable with.</TD></TR></TABLE>
ya but w/o iat correction the tune fluctuate w/ temps
ya but w/o iat correction the tune fluctuate w/ temps
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Joined: Apr 2003
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From: CT
Re: (drumking15)
The price is <U>everything</U>. Hondata is a few hundred dollars whereas Uberdata and Crome are free. Whether you're sacrificing anything by choosing one over the other is up for debate, but to 99% of the people on here (and everywhere), money is the deciding factor.
Joined: Jan 2004
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From: Texas, USA
Re: (TheHooded_Mike)
this thread is hilarious; it has more bias in it then you could bottle up in a tanker ship.
Mase; who's become this overhyped honda-tech/full-ripoff propaganda superstar is damning the freeware efi movement while the people with reason are.. well.. not. And unfortunately all the idiots on this site take everything that the hype-gods say; print it out; coat it in epoxy; and stick it in their *** and masterbate with it like its some religious rellic that will bring imortality.
It's sick really; people aren't smart enough to do their own research so all the bandwagons and sponsers that love shoving their bullshit down peoples throat seem to dictate things on this site.
I run crome pro; i love it; it works 100000000x than uberdata and cost nothing compared to hon-****-data; it's REALLY coming along; john has his **** together and is on the ball. It may have a few small bugs now but i think the freeware guys are over the hump; it'll just get better from here.
I guess what i'm trying to say is this thread is like asking a gm dealer if the ford escord or a chevy crapalier is a better car. Of corse he who has money to lose will be yelling the loudest against that which will cut his proffits down.
Mase; who's become this overhyped honda-tech/full-ripoff propaganda superstar is damning the freeware efi movement while the people with reason are.. well.. not. And unfortunately all the idiots on this site take everything that the hype-gods say; print it out; coat it in epoxy; and stick it in their *** and masterbate with it like its some religious rellic that will bring imortality.
It's sick really; people aren't smart enough to do their own research so all the bandwagons and sponsers that love shoving their bullshit down peoples throat seem to dictate things on this site.
I run crome pro; i love it; it works 100000000x than uberdata and cost nothing compared to hon-****-data; it's REALLY coming along; john has his **** together and is on the ball. It may have a few small bugs now but i think the freeware guys are over the hump; it'll just get better from here.
I guess what i'm trying to say is this thread is like asking a gm dealer if the ford escord or a chevy crapalier is a better car. Of corse he who has money to lose will be yelling the loudest against that which will cut his proffits down.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: The Swamp, FL
Re: (ComputerJLT)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ComputerJLT »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this thread is hilarious; it has more bias in it then you could bottle up in a tanker ship.
Mase; who's become this overhyped honda-tech/full-ripoff propaganda superstar is damning the freeware efi movement while the people with reason are.. well.. not. And unfortunately all the idiots on this site take everything that the hype-gods say; print it out; coat it in epoxy; and stick it in their *** and masterbate with it like its some religious rellic that will bring imortality.
It's sick really; people aren't smart enough to do their own research so all the bandwagons and sponsers that love shoving their bullshit down peoples throat seem to dictate things on this site.
I run crome pro; i love it; it works 100000000x than uberdata and cost nothing compared to hon-****-data; it's REALLY coming along; john has his **** together and is on the ball. It may have a few small bugs now but i think the freeware guys are over the hump; it'll just get better from here.
I guess what i'm trying to say is this thread is like asking a gm dealer if the ford escord or a chevy crapalier is a better car. Of corse he who has money to lose will be yelling the loudest against that which will cut his proffits down.</TD></TR></TABLE>
its ok, you can get off my nuts too.
you act like hondata pays me to use their system.
why wouldnt i use the 'best' and most 'effective' application?
if it made my life easier to use crome or uberdata i would do so. but im not about to even spend the time and fiddle around w/ plug ins or beta versions, etc. or just ignore bugs.
if you want to, go for it, but people ask my opinion and i give it. you all are just as biased as i am.
i dont discourage anyone from using the freeware, you need to work on your comprehension skills if you believe that.
from my prospective, its much more conveinent for me to use hondata, from every aspect.
im sure crome has come a long way, and if it ever surpassed hondata (in my eyes), maybe id be interested in it.
most of you are the user end. yes you have to pay for your engine management, simply I DO NOT.
I dont purchase it, i just tune it. i will get the same amount of money tuning whatever system i want, and can charge any amount i wish.
so why would i still choose a system that is still a little rough around the edges when cost does not matter to me? nor to the people who dont mind spending a couple hundred bucks to have a perfect running car, making gobs of power, and properly tuned?
lastly, people like yourselves are the ones who ruin the discussion of the board.
taking cheap shots at me or anyone else wont get you anywhere but banned.
its sad we cant have any freeware discussions anymore without it getting out of control.
Mase; who's become this overhyped honda-tech/full-ripoff propaganda superstar is damning the freeware efi movement while the people with reason are.. well.. not. And unfortunately all the idiots on this site take everything that the hype-gods say; print it out; coat it in epoxy; and stick it in their *** and masterbate with it like its some religious rellic that will bring imortality.
It's sick really; people aren't smart enough to do their own research so all the bandwagons and sponsers that love shoving their bullshit down peoples throat seem to dictate things on this site.
I run crome pro; i love it; it works 100000000x than uberdata and cost nothing compared to hon-****-data; it's REALLY coming along; john has his **** together and is on the ball. It may have a few small bugs now but i think the freeware guys are over the hump; it'll just get better from here.
I guess what i'm trying to say is this thread is like asking a gm dealer if the ford escord or a chevy crapalier is a better car. Of corse he who has money to lose will be yelling the loudest against that which will cut his proffits down.</TD></TR></TABLE>
its ok, you can get off my nuts too.
you act like hondata pays me to use their system.
why wouldnt i use the 'best' and most 'effective' application?
if it made my life easier to use crome or uberdata i would do so. but im not about to even spend the time and fiddle around w/ plug ins or beta versions, etc. or just ignore bugs.
if you want to, go for it, but people ask my opinion and i give it. you all are just as biased as i am.
i dont discourage anyone from using the freeware, you need to work on your comprehension skills if you believe that.
from my prospective, its much more conveinent for me to use hondata, from every aspect.
im sure crome has come a long way, and if it ever surpassed hondata (in my eyes), maybe id be interested in it.
most of you are the user end. yes you have to pay for your engine management, simply I DO NOT.
I dont purchase it, i just tune it. i will get the same amount of money tuning whatever system i want, and can charge any amount i wish.
so why would i still choose a system that is still a little rough around the edges when cost does not matter to me? nor to the people who dont mind spending a couple hundred bucks to have a perfect running car, making gobs of power, and properly tuned?
lastly, people like yourselves are the ones who ruin the discussion of the board.
taking cheap shots at me or anyone else wont get you anywhere but banned.
its sad we cant have any freeware discussions anymore without it getting out of control.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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From: The Swamp, FL
Re: (Mase)
lastly,
one more cheap shot from any side of the spectrum, this thread will be locked, and/or points docked.
we should be allowed to express our opinions freely, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
one more cheap shot from any side of the spectrum, this thread will be locked, and/or points docked.
we should be allowed to express our opinions freely, and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,190
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From: Tallahassee, FL, US
Re: (Mase)
The simple fact is that there will always be supporters of both sides. You are talking about not only very different systems here, but levels of money being sunk into the cars. The guy who does a cheap rebuild, just installing stock or eagle rods with vitara pistons will NEVER spring for a Hondata 300 or an AEM. Secondly, someone who has sunk 6k on an engine and turbo systems won't think about tuning it with freeware. I am personally on the AEM and Hondata side of the argument because one of them does EVERYTHING I need for any car I've ever tuned(although I'm partial to the AEM 
)
Peace
)Peace
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 568
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From: VA
Re: (Jared)
with options such as crome and neptune, i dont see why anybody would touch hondata anymore. its overpriced and crome and neptune can both do the same things just as well. and **** if somebody has the money to go hondata, why dont they just save up a little more and go with aem? hondata costs too much for what you're getting
It all comes back to what your tuner wants to tune. If you feel more comfortable going to someone that tunes hondata, then you are going to get hondata, or if you want cheaper and a DIY base, you get uber or crome.
I don't think any are a bad system. I just think that everything has their place. And in the end it always come down to money.
I don't think any are a bad system. I just think that everything has their place. And in the end it always come down to money.
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Joined: Apr 2004
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From: VA
Re: (93turbo16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It all comes back to what your tuner wants to tune. If you feel more comfortable going to someone that tunes hondata, then you are going to get hondata, or if you want cheaper and a DIY base, you get uber or crome.
I don't think any are a bad system. I just think that everything has their place. And in the end it always come down to money.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is true, which brings up another point. Why don't many tuners tune crome? They say its too complicated and they dont want to mess around with it
Its basically the same as hondata and is easier to use than the s200 software. i havent messed with the s300 interface yet, so i dont know what that is like compared to the s200 or crome.
I don't think any are a bad system. I just think that everything has their place. And in the end it always come down to money.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That is true, which brings up another point. Why don't many tuners tune crome? They say its too complicated and they dont want to mess around with it
Its basically the same as hondata and is easier to use than the s200 software. i havent messed with the s300 interface yet, so i dont know what that is like compared to the s200 or crome.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,737
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From: Watertown, CT, USA
I totally agree Mase is going to use whatever is easiest for him, of course money is no object, it makes sense. But People didn't get pissed off until Mase called free-ware half assed. That doesn't sound likethe average HT discussion to me. And that does sound like you're discouraging people from using it when you tell them they're cheaping out for not getting Hondata. 
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 420
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From: Torrance, CA, USA
Education
There are a number of incorrect assumptions and statements in this thread which need to be cleared up.
Most of it can be done by careful reading of : http://www.hondata.com/s300.html
and installing the (fully functional ) software : http://hondata.net/updates/?ap...nload
Here are a few points of interest:
- The S300 has 2Mb of onboard memory for datalogging. Triggered from a switch or engine parameters, you can record without a laptop all engine parameters for about 1 hour.
- The S300 would have been to market 18-24 months years earlier had it not been for the development of the K-Pro.
- Much of the technology, code and refinements in the K-Pro have found their way into the S300
- RomEditor 4 due soon will give any S200 or S100 owner the software functionality found in the S300
- Datalogging and programming on USB are simultaneous. Not groundbreaking but very convenient when done over a single over a single USB cable.
- The S300 has autotuning with wideband, (even those widebands that need the full 0-5V range) but experienced tuners can tune faster without it.
- Ease of use: Plug in USB. Make change. Go. Time taken is about 4 seconds. For people paying for tuning time this will save a little money.
Reliability:
The circuit board was redesigned 6 times. Only then were we happy to release it.
It has taken much to engineer USB reliability into a (electrically) noisy automotive environment. Experience from the K-Pro has helped here.
The Rom emulation is a proprietary solution engineered from the ground up - again for reliability. For example if the ROM image were to corrupt (which it has not in testing) it takes only 3 seconds to restore full operation to the ECU.
My experience in using an external emulator to run a car full time has not been good. For tuning yes, but not for running your car months on end. The S300 runs the real time ROM emulation full time so changes anytime are very quick to do.
I see the S300 as the Apple computer of the tuning industry. Simple, elegant, well engineered, well supported and reliable.
Modified by Hondata at 11:48 PM 9/9/2005
Most of it can be done by careful reading of : http://www.hondata.com/s300.html
and installing the (fully functional ) software : http://hondata.net/updates/?ap...nload
Here are a few points of interest:
- The S300 has 2Mb of onboard memory for datalogging. Triggered from a switch or engine parameters, you can record without a laptop all engine parameters for about 1 hour.
- The S300 would have been to market 18-24 months years earlier had it not been for the development of the K-Pro.
- Much of the technology, code and refinements in the K-Pro have found their way into the S300
- RomEditor 4 due soon will give any S200 or S100 owner the software functionality found in the S300
- Datalogging and programming on USB are simultaneous. Not groundbreaking but very convenient when done over a single over a single USB cable.
- The S300 has autotuning with wideband, (even those widebands that need the full 0-5V range) but experienced tuners can tune faster without it.
- Ease of use: Plug in USB. Make change. Go. Time taken is about 4 seconds. For people paying for tuning time this will save a little money.
Reliability:
The circuit board was redesigned 6 times. Only then were we happy to release it.
It has taken much to engineer USB reliability into a (electrically) noisy automotive environment. Experience from the K-Pro has helped here.
The Rom emulation is a proprietary solution engineered from the ground up - again for reliability. For example if the ROM image were to corrupt (which it has not in testing) it takes only 3 seconds to restore full operation to the ECU.
My experience in using an external emulator to run a car full time has not been good. For tuning yes, but not for running your car months on end. The S300 runs the real time ROM emulation full time so changes anytime are very quick to do.
I see the S300 as the Apple computer of the tuning industry. Simple, elegant, well engineered, well supported and reliable.
Modified by Hondata at 11:48 PM 9/9/2005
Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,240
Likes: 0
From: Oklahoma City, OK, usa
Re: Education (Hondata)
Not taking sides but....here are some successes with cromepro...i took this off the pgmfi forum...
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: Crome wins NHRA SFWD 1st Place!!!!!!
"HDMmotorsports.com won first place Sport SFWD NHRA @ Morosso race park yesterday (August 21)! Saturday got "1st qualifier" with a
10.2@139mph!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (new personal record)
and Sunday won the event with a 10.3@137mph against CFT (central florida turbo)
We built this car as a daily driver guys, and it still is!, just with a 10 point cage now.... Very Happy
I'll be posting all the videos soon, i'm really tired after this weekend.
Thanks John, we'll talk later.
True daily driven "Sport SFWD" champion!
tuned on Crome by Hybrixt @ 25psi.....welcome to the new world!
...there is more to come."
And heres one that made some pretty decent hp using crome pro...
its not that bad...my opinion is...if the ems can tune correctly whether it be uberdata, crome, hondata, neptune, autronic, motech etc....then its good enuff for me...it all depends what feautres, user freindly, and also how accurate you want your tuning to be...but they all do the basic tune function is to tune ur fuel and ignition maps...
i have been playing around with cromepro for a while, and i like it...only becuase i know how to use it, i did my part in extensive reading and research and got the program to work easily for me...many others though struggle on connecting, datalogging, and updating to the emulator...i would like to try the s300...i have an s100...that i never used becuase i never bought the software...but if s300 allows you to tune the s100 and s200..i give that a plus!
PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 2:54 am Post subject: Crome wins NHRA SFWD 1st Place!!!!!!
"HDMmotorsports.com won first place Sport SFWD NHRA @ Morosso race park yesterday (August 21)! Saturday got "1st qualifier" with a
10.2@139mph!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (new personal record)
and Sunday won the event with a 10.3@137mph against CFT (central florida turbo)
We built this car as a daily driver guys, and it still is!, just with a 10 point cage now.... Very Happy
I'll be posting all the videos soon, i'm really tired after this weekend.
Thanks John, we'll talk later.
True daily driven "Sport SFWD" champion!
tuned on Crome by Hybrixt @ 25psi.....welcome to the new world!
...there is more to come."
And heres one that made some pretty decent hp using crome pro...
its not that bad...my opinion is...if the ems can tune correctly whether it be uberdata, crome, hondata, neptune, autronic, motech etc....then its good enuff for me...it all depends what feautres, user freindly, and also how accurate you want your tuning to be...but they all do the basic tune function is to tune ur fuel and ignition maps...
i have been playing around with cromepro for a while, and i like it...only becuase i know how to use it, i did my part in extensive reading and research and got the program to work easily for me...many others though struggle on connecting, datalogging, and updating to the emulator...i would like to try the s300...i have an s100...that i never used becuase i never bought the software...but if s300 allows you to tune the s100 and s200..i give that a plus!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,199
Likes: 1
From: WA
Re: Education (Shy Gsr)
You guys can get as technical as you want about crome and hondata, but the big issue that most people are divided on is money. Going back and forth about what is "better" isn't going to accomplish anything.
Both of these engine management systems obviosuly work well... nobody can argue they don't because you can find a lot of success storys with both. Being and end user I don't give a **** about all the little features (unless I specifically need that feature)... I just want it to be able to run my boosted car... it comes down to money, plain and simple.
It's not worth it to me to spend $1,000 for hondata when all I need is crome/uberdata. Who cares if one system might be a little smoother going into boost or one system might be easier to tune... if it runs my car and keeps it safe? I don't care about a little extra feature or an extra 5 horsepower. I'm not a professional racecar driver... I drive a cheap *** boosted honda. That's just the way I look at it because I would rather have more money in my pocket.
**** I have been running uberdata for over 1.5 years without any problems. It would have been no different if I was running hondata. I wouldn't have ran 11's in the 1/4 mile and I wouldn't have beat that 380whp turbo coupe I raced on the freeway (just an example). The only difference to me is I have more money in my pocket.
Both of these engine management systems obviosuly work well... nobody can argue they don't because you can find a lot of success storys with both. Being and end user I don't give a **** about all the little features (unless I specifically need that feature)... I just want it to be able to run my boosted car... it comes down to money, plain and simple.
It's not worth it to me to spend $1,000 for hondata when all I need is crome/uberdata. Who cares if one system might be a little smoother going into boost or one system might be easier to tune... if it runs my car and keeps it safe? I don't care about a little extra feature or an extra 5 horsepower. I'm not a professional racecar driver... I drive a cheap *** boosted honda. That's just the way I look at it because I would rather have more money in my pocket.
**** I have been running uberdata for over 1.5 years without any problems. It would have been no different if I was running hondata. I wouldn't have ran 11's in the 1/4 mile and I wouldn't have beat that 380whp turbo coupe I raced on the freeway (just an example). The only difference to me is I have more money in my pocket.
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Joined: May 2001
Posts: 7,190
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From: Tallahassee, FL, US
Re: Education (beerbongskickass)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Who cares if one system might be a little smoother going into boost or one system might be easier to tune... if it runs my car and keeps it safe? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I care, and so do most of my customers. The goal is a boosted car that is tuned to drive like stock. And what happens if a problem arises? I've never dealt with Hondata's support, but I can tell you that AEM's tech support is wonderful, and far above average for this industry.
Who cares if one system might be a little smoother going into boost or one system might be easier to tune... if it runs my car and keeps it safe? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I care, and so do most of my customers. The goal is a boosted car that is tuned to drive like stock. And what happens if a problem arises? I've never dealt with Hondata's support, but I can tell you that AEM's tech support is wonderful, and far above average for this industry.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,199
Likes: 1
From: WA
Re: Education (Jared)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Jared »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I care, and so do most of my customers. The goal is a boosted car that is tuned to drive like stock. And what happens if a problem arises? I've never dealt with Hondata's support, but I can tell you that AEM's tech support is wonderful, and far above average for this industry.</TD></TR></TABLE>
My car drives like stock and it's very smooth going into boost, so I see no advantage going to hondata there. I haven't had any problems arise for the 20 months I have been boosted. You could put a hondata tune, uberdata tune, and crome tune on my car and I bet you wouldn't even notice. So again I don't see the point of spending more money for hondata.
What problems are you talking about? Wiring? Chipping? Tuning? That was all taking care of during the install.
My car drives like stock and it's very smooth going into boost, so I see no advantage going to hondata there. I haven't had any problems arise for the 20 months I have been boosted. You could put a hondata tune, uberdata tune, and crome tune on my car and I bet you wouldn't even notice. So again I don't see the point of spending more money for hondata.
What problems are you talking about? Wiring? Chipping? Tuning? That was all taking care of during the install.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 639
Likes: 0
From: CA, USA
Re: Education (beerbongskickass)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It's not worth it to me to spend $1,000 for hondata when all I need is crome/uberdata. Who cares if one system might be a little smoother going into boost or one system might be easier to tune... if it runs my car and keeps it safe? I don't care about a little extra feature or an extra 5 horsepower. I'm not a professional racecar driver... I drive a cheap *** boosted honda. That's just the way I look at it because I would rather have more money in my pocket.</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly, most people who run the freeware, have DIY and junk yard setups and wouldnt know any better.
nothing wrong with running the free stuff if u dont have the money, but the people who want it done to perfection, will spend the money.
It's not worth it to me to spend $1,000 for hondata when all I need is crome/uberdata. Who cares if one system might be a little smoother going into boost or one system might be easier to tune... if it runs my car and keeps it safe? I don't care about a little extra feature or an extra 5 horsepower. I'm not a professional racecar driver... I drive a cheap *** boosted honda. That's just the way I look at it because I would rather have more money in my pocket.</TD></TR></TABLE>
exactly, most people who run the freeware, have DIY and junk yard setups and wouldnt know any better.
nothing wrong with running the free stuff if u dont have the money, but the people who want it done to perfection, will spend the money.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,695
Likes: 0
From: Chicagoland, usa
Re: Education (D0GMAN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D0GMAN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">exactly, most people who run the freeware, have DIY and junk yard setups and wouldnt know any better.
nothing wrong with running the free stuff if u dont have the money, but the people who want it done to perfection, will spend the money. </TD></TR></TABLE>
My turbo honda runs like an OEM car... as far as I'm concerned... thats prefection. (TurboEdit tuned)
nothing wrong with running the free stuff if u dont have the money, but the people who want it done to perfection, will spend the money. </TD></TR></TABLE>
My turbo honda runs like an OEM car... as far as I'm concerned... thats prefection. (TurboEdit tuned)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,199
Likes: 1
From: WA
Re: Education (D0GMAN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D0GMAN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
exactly, most people who run the freeware, have DIY and junk yard setups and wouldnt know any better.
nothing wrong with running the free stuff if u dont have the money, but the people who want it done to perfection, will spend the money. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's kinda funny. I was thinking the same thing about people that buy hondata... they just don't know any better.
I have the money to buy hondata, I actually bought hondata before I went turbo, but then I sold it when I realized it's just software and I could use uberdata/crome for free and get the same results.
exactly, most people who run the freeware, have DIY and junk yard setups and wouldnt know any better.
nothing wrong with running the free stuff if u dont have the money, but the people who want it done to perfection, will spend the money. </TD></TR></TABLE>
That's kinda funny. I was thinking the same thing about people that buy hondata... they just don't know any better.
I have the money to buy hondata, I actually bought hondata before I went turbo, but then I sold it when I realized it's just software and I could use uberdata/crome for free and get the same results.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,408
Likes: 4
From: Somewhere in California
Re: Education (D0GMAN)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by D0GMAN »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">exactly, most people who run the freeware, have DIY and junk yard setups and wouldnt know any better.
nothing wrong with running the free stuff if u dont have the money, but the people who want it done to perfection, will spend the money. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I find it hard to believe that people using Hondata have never experienced and problems with bugs, people with poor tunes, experiences with bad tuners/dealers, or dealers with bad customer service. Just cause they have a company logo and charge more money then the DIY programs doesn't make them immune from such things. I bet if I searched on Hondata.com I can find a few posts about some of the minor bugs.
nothing wrong with running the free stuff if u dont have the money, but the people who want it done to perfection, will spend the money. </TD></TR></TABLE>
I find it hard to believe that people using Hondata have never experienced and problems with bugs, people with poor tunes, experiences with bad tuners/dealers, or dealers with bad customer service. Just cause they have a company logo and charge more money then the DIY programs doesn't make them immune from such things. I bet if I searched on Hondata.com I can find a few posts about some of the minor bugs.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 920
Likes: 0
From: bumfuck egypt, SD, US
I have a couple questions about closed loop, hondata's auto tuning ****, and IAT correction. (which both cromepro and hondata have?)
First, what the hell is auto tuning? Can you set certain manifold pressures/rpm points to be a certain afr and the thing will tune itself to that with the wideband? Could I run 15.5:1 afr in closed loop under cruise? (and can I even use my zeitronix piece of **** to datalog with hondata? Accurately? I have Not been able to get a straight answer on this!)
Second, why do you necessarily need an adjustable IAT temp correction if the whole map changes via the ecu's long term fuel correction in closed loop? Unless you have the car towed to the dragstrip where it is 50 degrees cooler and don't give the ecu time to make the adjustment.? And I don't understand this anyway. It seems to me like cooler air would cause the system to run rich with larger than stock injectors, with the same temp based % pulsewidth increase. Could someone explain this **** to me? I haven't thought about it enough yet to figure it out..
And I still have yet to figure out what the Real differences are between the hondata s300 and cromepro with the "ostrich"..
First, what the hell is auto tuning? Can you set certain manifold pressures/rpm points to be a certain afr and the thing will tune itself to that with the wideband? Could I run 15.5:1 afr in closed loop under cruise? (and can I even use my zeitronix piece of **** to datalog with hondata? Accurately? I have Not been able to get a straight answer on this!)
Second, why do you necessarily need an adjustable IAT temp correction if the whole map changes via the ecu's long term fuel correction in closed loop? Unless you have the car towed to the dragstrip where it is 50 degrees cooler and don't give the ecu time to make the adjustment.? And I don't understand this anyway. It seems to me like cooler air would cause the system to run rich with larger than stock injectors, with the same temp based % pulsewidth increase. Could someone explain this **** to me? I haven't thought about it enough yet to figure it out..
And I still have yet to figure out what the Real differences are between the hondata s300 and cromepro with the "ostrich"..
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 4,408
Likes: 4
From: Somewhere in California
Re: (rorik)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First, what the hell is auto tuning? Can you set certain manifold pressures/rpm points to be a certain afr and the thing will tune itself to that with the wideband?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I haven't used Hondata's auto tune, and it's been a long time since I messed with CromePRO's auto tune. But last time I used Crome all I had to do was set my target AFR in the target AFR tab. Then CromePRO just calculates the new fuel value based on the wideband AFR input going into the ECU.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could I run 15.5:1 afr in closed loop under cruise? (and can I even use my zeitronix piece of **** to datalog with hondata? Accurately? I have Not been able to get a straight answer on this!)</TD></TR></TABLE>
14.7:1, 15:1 and sometimes 16:1 are good enough AFR's for your cruising RPM/load cells. AS the load increases you want to gradually richen up the mixture. Last time I checked CromePRO didn't support the Zt-2 because of it's parabolic voltage/AFR thingamajiger (most other WB's have a linear voltage). Dont know if Hondata has been working on the conversion tables for the Zt-2 or not. If you use the Zt-2 you just have to use it's own datalogging software, which means no autotune.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Second, why do you necessarily need an adjustable IAT temp correction if the whole map changes via the ecu's long term fuel correction in closed loop?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Probably because the change in air temp causes too big of a change for the closed loop to make the change.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems to me like cooler air would cause the system to run rich with larger than stock injectors, with the same temp based % pulsewidth increase. Could someone explain this **** to me? I haven't thought about it enough yet to figure it out.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Assuming you dont have any IAT correction a decrease i temperatures will cause you to run leaner. Cold air is denser and has more air molecules. So basically you are cramming more air molecules into the motor, and if you dont add fuel to compensate fir the increased air you'll run a leaner mixture.
I haven't used Hondata's auto tune, and it's been a long time since I messed with CromePRO's auto tune. But last time I used Crome all I had to do was set my target AFR in the target AFR tab. Then CromePRO just calculates the new fuel value based on the wideband AFR input going into the ECU.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Could I run 15.5:1 afr in closed loop under cruise? (and can I even use my zeitronix piece of **** to datalog with hondata? Accurately? I have Not been able to get a straight answer on this!)</TD></TR></TABLE>
14.7:1, 15:1 and sometimes 16:1 are good enough AFR's for your cruising RPM/load cells. AS the load increases you want to gradually richen up the mixture. Last time I checked CromePRO didn't support the Zt-2 because of it's parabolic voltage/AFR thingamajiger (most other WB's have a linear voltage). Dont know if Hondata has been working on the conversion tables for the Zt-2 or not. If you use the Zt-2 you just have to use it's own datalogging software, which means no autotune.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Second, why do you necessarily need an adjustable IAT temp correction if the whole map changes via the ecu's long term fuel correction in closed loop?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Probably because the change in air temp causes too big of a change for the closed loop to make the change.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rorik »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It seems to me like cooler air would cause the system to run rich with larger than stock injectors, with the same temp based % pulsewidth increase. Could someone explain this **** to me? I haven't thought about it enough yet to figure it out.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Assuming you dont have any IAT correction a decrease i temperatures will cause you to run leaner. Cold air is denser and has more air molecules. So basically you are cramming more air molecules into the motor, and if you dont add fuel to compensate fir the increased air you'll run a leaner mixture.
Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,331
Likes: 2
From: Philadelphia, PA
Re: (rorik)
Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. IAT correction adjustability is a big deal for those with bigger injectors. Yes the ecu already has IAT correction, but it over/under compensates.
These numbers are just hypothetical, but its pretty much like this:
240cc injectors. You compensate 15%, and your adding 36cc of extra fuel.
720cc injectors. You compensate 15%, and your adding 108cc of extra fuel.
Having the ability to "trim" the level of compensation is something thats essential to having a tune that will remain fairly stable regardless of the season.
These numbers are just hypothetical, but its pretty much like this:
240cc injectors. You compensate 15%, and your adding 36cc of extra fuel.
720cc injectors. You compensate 15%, and your adding 108cc of extra fuel.
Having the ability to "trim" the level of compensation is something thats essential to having a tune that will remain fairly stable regardless of the season.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 920
Likes: 0
From: bumfuck egypt, SD, US
Ok, so you can actually set a load cell to 15.5:1 afr and it will tune itself to that..?
I still don't get the IAT correction though. 720cc injectors, compensate 15%, you're Not adding 108cc of extra fuel, because you're starting out with a much lower pulsewidth to alter as a %. What the hell am I missing?
A=2B, Ax=2Bx
I still don't get the IAT correction though. 720cc injectors, compensate 15%, you're Not adding 108cc of extra fuel, because you're starting out with a much lower pulsewidth to alter as a %. What the hell am I missing?
A=2B, Ax=2Bx