STL01Civic

here is my setup for a H22a4 in my Accord:
Custom Manifold - thinkin about Drag/Greddy
Garrett T3 Super 60 .48a/r (bigger or no?)
Spearco intercooler
Custom intercooler piping
Greddy E-manage w/ all harness
RC 550CC Injectors
Greddy Type RS BOV
Tunning

I am not going to name those little stuff.

Anyway. My question is with the setup above. Do you think is it possible to achieve 300hp? Or I have to do some internal?
Also how many pound/psi can a stock bottom end can handle?

Mr Black

I forget all the issues about turboing an H22, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that the open-deck block is a lousy choice because obviously the cylinders are weaker. If you have the closed-deck from a 4th gen that's a plus right there.

Beyond that.........I think we both need to hit the Search or hope that someone else chimes in.

boosted lude

I would think about internals before you try and run 300whp on that motor... i have a 01 lude thats in the shop right now gettin a full bottom end build... i was runnin between 8-12 psi on a t3/to4e turbo and it lasted me 11 months... end result was i melted my #4 piston and a few valves... If you really want to turbo the stock motor though just keep the boost low(5-7psi) and get it tunned really well and you should be ok for a while... as for your setup i dont think you should have a problem getting 230+whp but imo on a prelude i would get a bigger turbo...

PrettyLude

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Black &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I forget all the issues about turboing an H22, the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is that the open-deck block is a lousy choice because obviously the cylinders are weaker. If you have the closed-deck from a 4th gen that's a plus right there.

Beyond that.........I think we both need to hit the Search or hope that someone else chimes in.</TD></TR></TABLE>

care to explain why you think the closed decks are better

the ringlands in the pistons are weak, watch out for that

98lude-t

hey i have mine turboed.
ran it for 6 mos on 10psi full t3 turbo. blew up the turbo got a new sc61 and now running 15 psi. all tuned by me. havent had any probs yet
everyone i have seen running boosted h22a4's has or had blown a ring land or rod at about 12 psi. but i havent so i don;t know what the hell is going on in my motor. also the engine has 111k on her and not a single puff or drop of oil.

STL01Civic

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would think about internals before you try and run 300whp on that motor... i have a 01 lude thats in the shop right now gettin a full bottom end build... i was runnin between 8-12 psi on a t3/to4e turbo and it lasted me 11 months... end result was i melted my #4 piston and a few valves... If you really want to turbo the stock motor though just keep the boost low(5-7psi) and get it tunned really well and you should be ok for a while... as for your setup i dont think you should have a problem getting 230+whp but imo on a prelude i would get a bigger turbo...</TD></TR></TABLE>

How big of a turbo should I get??? t3/t04e???

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted lude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would think about internals before you try and run 300whp on that motor... i have a 01 lude thats in the shop right now gettin a full bottom end build... i was runnin between 8-12 psi on a t3/to4e turbo and it lasted me 11 months... end result was i melted my #4 piston and a few valves... If you really want to turbo the stock motor though just keep the boost low(5-7psi) and get it tunned really well and you should be ok for a while... as for your setup i dont think you should have a problem getting 230+whp but imo on a prelude i would get a bigger turbo...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Should I keep it at 5-7psi, if I have stock internal??

PrettyLude

i would keep it around that psi or no more than 10 psi, the t3t4or will be fine, get it tuned really good

Mr Black

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrettyLude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

care to explain why you think the closed decks are better

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you being sarcastic?

I have been told by people who turbo a lot of Hondas, and it makes sense to me, that if you have cylinder walls that are thinner, a lot of boost can cause them to deflect, and you can imagine what that does to your pistons, rings, overall performance, etc. Does this not make sense?

sharkcohen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mr Black &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Are you being sarcastic?

I have been told by people who turbo a lot of Hondas, and it makes sense to me, that if you have cylinder walls that are thinner, a lot of boost can cause them to deflect, and you can imagine what that does to your pistons, rings, overall performance, etc. Does this not make sense? </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm sorry, but you don't know much about H blocks, do you?

Mr Black

OK OK, feel free to correct me, and in doing so explain why a thicker (closed deck) block is no better than an open-deck block. I guess the people that "post" their open deck blocks don't know much about them either?

What makes an H block any different than any other engine block?

Mr Black

I'm bumping because I actually want to know the answer to this. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong, but I want to hear an explanation why.

kevinoneill

as do i...

i can say that closed decks have less room for coolant to flow around the engine. They do have rivets i believe running through the cylinder walls or some sort. So keeping the engine cool is a slightly harder task. I believe also having a closed deck leaves very little room for boring....as opposed to open deck you can resleeve it and bore away.

anyone care to verify? add to? delete from?

PrettyLude

i myself have a built block, and in order to run after market pistons you have to resleeve

imo open decks are better for cooling issues

Mr Black

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by PrettyLude &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i myself have a built block, and in order to run after market pistons you have to resleeve

imo open decks are better for cooling issues</TD></TR></TABLE>

No argument on any of these points. However, the majority of cylinder blocks in the automotive world are closed deck, so I don't think the extra cooling is of such importance that you would prefer that for an FI application over the (theoretical) extra strength of closed-deck.

All I can say is that the point about the cylinder walls deflecting was pointed out to me by someone with a great deal of experience, tuning 700-1000+++ hp cars, so I defer to him. If Mr Shark would like to explain to me why that's not accurate I'm all ears.

sharkcohen

I'm looking at it from the perspective of a stock H22a4 motor, not 700-1000 hp cars. You will never see problems associated with the cylinder walls such as you describe because you will have long toasted a piston or threw a rod before any of that happens. Open deck or closed deck, it's not the strength of the cylinder walls, it's the weakness of the stock cast pistons and the stock rods that ruins a stock H22 motor.

Mr Black

The tuner in question (and yes he is a tuner, not just a parts salesman) does not only work on 700 hp racers but also on reasonable street turbo cars. This was his opinion based on having done quite a bit of work on Honda street cars, B's, H's and F's. You obviously have your own opinions and experience.

At what psi does the strength of pistons become a limitation? And exactly what happens to them? The top ringland breaks under pressure? Or is it due to the extra heat?

Are the stock rods that weak that they simply bend because of the extra cylinder pressure?

PrettyLude

its not the rods that are the problem, the pistons are weak and don' t last too long when they are boosted, the ringlands give

sevret.t

You could just get a thicker head gasket to solve the problem of pistons or rebuilding the block right? saw that in a magazine.. the guy had h22 and he put a thicker head gasket to reduce the compression down to about 9:1 or so.. said he ran 15 psi on it. dont quote me but thats what i saw

rseaburgh

You could do that, but if you get a cheap gasket it could lead to leaks and your back to square one. It's not a bad idea though, lower the comp, save some cash while your out and about then build the block.