<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FMIC that's black &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Spend $3 bucks on the potentiometer then $125 for the RRR (the combination replaces the (V/SAFC for less than half the price) and $50-100 for injectors and you're done. $20 for a resistor box (which AGAIN is something that you'll spend about $1 x 4(injectors) = $4 to make one your self)

Total: $182-$232 (depending on source of DSM injectors)
Pros: Cheaper and more tunable than the S/VAFC with infinite RPM points and thousands of possible combinations. Plus you can go leaner (for maximum gas milage) or ritcher (if you decide to add nitrous to the mix) on a moments notice with the rotation of a 1" switch. Not only will you be able to use 310cc injectors and still not starve for fuel, you'll also have the ability to tune below -50% if needed and have the RRR make up the slack if you're using massive injectors
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Want to detail on how there are "infinite rpm points" using a fixed resistance value? When you lose RPM adjustability, you get a grand total of one "rpm point". All you are doing is dropping voltage on the MAP sensor across the board, regardless of RPM. Then you are assuming that your regulator is going to automagically fix everything. What if you can't find a regulator ratio that works at every RPM? (you won't be able to find one)

Regardless, you are still going to have wack-*** tip in detonation problems.

 

That is not what the AFC does. The manipulation of the output voltage is proportional, not linearly skewed like with the ghetto resistor trick that won't work like you describe.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> then use a RRR to compensate for fuel demands on both the low and high end,</TD></TR></TABLE>

You're going to have to show me how a RRR responds to fuel demands on the low end... I think you understand FMU operation not at all. In your typical 12:1 FMU at 41 psi fuel pressure Honda setup, there is no increase in fuel pressure @ the rail until ~3.5 psi of boost, and then you get an additional 12 psi fuel pressure for every psi boost above the 3.5. It does nothing for low end, it is not a FPR, and it hardly does anything for the boost event except delude people into thinking they are safe boosting with one.

FMUs work great - in large injector low ratio setups, at which point you've spent enough jack to buy most standalones.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's the perfect solution.</TD></TR></TABLE>

It's crap.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The car will still balance it self according to factory AFR specs and the OBD won't make any real difference. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Welcome to incessant CEL 1, 3, 5, 43, and 23 where applicable, in the setup you describe.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the OBD won't make any real difference. Only the timing within the ECU.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, if your setup doesn't strike a completely uninformed n00b as completely inadequate, it's because it's masked by the hack job you've done to the factory timing maps by playing *****-nilly with MAP signal input.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Total: $182-$232 (depending on source of DSM injectors)</TD></TR></TABLE>

And a complete waste of that money.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pros: Cheaper and more tunable than the S/VAFC</TD></TR></TABLE>

Fallacy.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Plus you can go leaner (for maximum gas milage) or ritcher (if you decide to add nitrous to the mix) on a moments notice with the rotation of a 1" switch.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That got a laugh out of me.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Not only will you be able to use 310cc injectors and still not starve for fuel, you'll also have the ability to tune below -50% if needed and have the RRR make up the slack if you're using massive injectors </TD></TR></TABLE>

Please do explain how the RRR/FMU performs this. I feel the need to laugh further.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Cons: You have to know how to write your own name, know which wire on your MAP sensor needs to be intercepted, and how to solder/heatshrink in order to accomplish this. If you were too lazy to read this entire post, then you'll probably screw something like this up completely.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm thinking you aren't capable of most of those requirements, bucko.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Overall: Complete fuel solution with more tunability and less cost than any other proposed solution. </TD></TR></TABLE>

How about completely inadequate fuel solution with more loss of tunability and less cost than any other poorly proposed solution heard on Honda-Tech to date?

Total cost is about the same as a good used AFC, which is a lot superior to your solution, or one of the Crome/uberdata routes which actually requires being able to write your own name, etc.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But...it still dosen't adress timing if needed. With the leftover bucks, you can buy/make a timing adjustment device (chip or some redneck source of timing control) and still come in under the cost of a S/VAFC and waaaay under the cost of a hondata and still have identical results to running a turbo ITR w/ 550 cc injectors on a D16Z6 NA basemap.</TD></TR></TABLE>


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll be using this process on my own turbo OBD0 B18 EG</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">P.S. my actual H-T name is "Black FMIC" but I had to use another name in order to bypass this B.S. 5posts/day limit.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think you need to learn how to bypass a B.S. IP ban before you come play here again.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dustin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Want to detail on how there are "infinite rpm points" using a fixed resistance value?

</TD></TR></TABLE>?

Sure. I actually used the incorrect part described above. Instead of a pot, use a Zener Diode. Diode NTE5068A in particular. This with the accompanyment of a RRR = unimaginable tunability being that both are 100% analog.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dustin &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

What if you can't find a regulator ratio that works at every RPM? (you won't be able to find one)

Regardless, you are still going to have wack-*** tip in detonation problems.</TD></TR></TABLE>

The former is one massive assumption. Granted, the odds aren't high to find a combination that works 100% flawlessly, but no solution will be 100% flawless short of a full standalone.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That is not what the AFC does. The manipulation of the output voltage is proportional, not linearly skewed like with the ghetto resistor trick that won't work like you describe.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My fault. I'm talking about a zener diode. The S/VAFC's work like an electronic Zener diode. The above resistor trick won't work, but a Zener diode will (and does).

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're going to have to show me how a RRR responds to fuel demands on the low end... I think you understand FMU operation not at all.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Pretty easily. RRR = Rising Rate Regulator which is short for "RRFPR" (Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator"). If you see this as "not a fuel pressure regulator" then you need to do some reading on the purpose and function of an RRR or RRFPR. If you tell it to add X amount of PSI of fuel pressure per PSI of boost, then it would address fuel needs at ANY rpm seeing that it's input isn't RPM dependant, rather boost dependant. If your injectors cause your car to run too rich at low RPM, then dial down the fuel pressure, and dial up the rate (if needed). Calculate your desired fuel presure @ peak boost then work backwards. The ratio is almost always ideal/psi when approached in this manner. This handles the fuel side of the equasion with more range than the S/VAFC.

The Zener diode in this instance would keep the MAP sensor from delivering 5v (actually, about 4.7-4.8v) back to the ECU so you'll still get the full spectrum of your factory ECU's fuel charts for the entire voltage range just as you would with the S/VAFC and it will still dump the peak voltage to ground and thereby not throw a CEL...just like the S/VAFC. This handles the voltage side of the equasion in the exact same manner as the S/VAFC.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Quote »
Not only will you be able to use 310cc injectors and still not starve for fuel, you'll also have the ability to tune below -50% if needed and have the RRR make up the slack if you're using massive injectors


Please do explain how the RRR/FMU performs this. I feel the need to laugh further</TD></TR></TABLE>

Now I see why you call your self a seething jackass. If with 310cc injectors, the car runs great at low rpm but not rich enough at high RPM, simply dial up the ratio of psi of fuel to psi or air. If with 680c injectors (for example) you run like crap at low rpm but run ideally at higher RPM where the boost is higher, then dial the initial line pressure down from ~40, to say...~30psi then dial the rate of psi of fuel:psi of air to suit. This really isn't that complex.

The rest of your post is just opinions so there's really no sense in wasting time destroying it. If you really want to work towards a usable fuel solution then I'm all for it. If you want to criticize and have no proposed solution, then keep it.

 

I have One of those now discontinued Shogun power tuners whichdoes the same thing as the AfC to manipulate the map sensor so i assume it would work the same if i put some rc 440s and did -40% fuel across the rpm range. here are some questions though?

Since the shogun doesn't have a different map for low throttle and high throttle do you think low throttle A/F will be absurdly rich in closed loop and my a/f be ok in open lopp or do you think the shogun manipulates it no matter what so i will be ok.

Also the shogun has timing control so i would be able to non boost dependently retard timing.

Anybody with experience using hypertech shogun in this manner let me know

 

omg its back! aaahhhhh

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black FMIC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

My fault. I'm talking about a zener diode. The S/VAFC's work like an electronic Zener diode. The above resistor trick won't work, but a Zener diode will (and does). </TD></TR></TABLE>

A Zener won't do what you propose, either.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pretty easily. RRR = Rising Rate Regulator which is short for "RRFPR" (Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator"). If you see this as "not a fuel pressure regulator" then you need to do some reading on the purpose and function of an RRR or RRFPR. </TD></TR></TABLE>

*sigh*

Here, let me do your research for you, n00b: http://www.vortechsupercharger....html


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The Zener diode in this instance would keep the MAP sensor from delivering 5v (actually, about 4.7-4.8v) back to the ECU so you'll still get the full spectrum of your factory ECU's fuel charts for the entire voltage range just as you would with the S/VAFC and it will still dump the peak voltage to ground and thereby not throw a CEL...just like the S/VAFC. This handles the voltage side of the equasion in the exact same manner as the S/VAFC.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Honda ECU freaks past 3.0-3.1 volts of the possible output of the stock 1.8 bar sensor.

A Zener diode as a voltage clamp still doesn't scale MAP input down as you suggest it does, it just sets a peak after which it goes into reverse breakdown. This is nothing at all like an AFC, which scales your MAP signal accordingly.

You want to DIY with simple electronic gimcrackery? Here, I've already done it for you: http://www.carolinahondas.com/...=1924

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now I see why you call your self a seething jackass. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Hang on a sec, let's see if I can do you a little better.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If with 680c injectors (for example) you run like crap at low rpm but run ideally at higher RPM where the boost is higher, then dial the initial line pressure down from ~40, to say...~30psi then dial the rate of psi of fuel:psi of air to suit. This really isn't that complex.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, but an RRR/RRFPR/FMU won't do that for you. It's just a restriction place in the fuel return, it does nothing to set base pressure.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The rest of your post is just opinions so there's really no sense in wasting time destroying it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

They aren't opinions, they are the damn truth, if I am allowed to quote Smokey in a ricer forum.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> If you really want to work towards a usable fuel solution then I'm all for it. If you want to criticize and have no proposed solution, then keep it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe my name is plastered all over http://www.pgmfi.org, and all over this forum advocating PGMFI derived engine management solutions for Hondas. Why don't you do a little research? If you want to criticise my knowledge, my experience, and the things I have accomplished and done while proposing fantasyland bullshit that has no bearing on reality - then keep it.

 

hey guys, can i use my stock 240cc injectors for the hack?


sorry, just thought i'd put in a lil humor since J davis is putting the smack down

 

Black FMIC, imo, dont argue with this man. you seem to have the ability to come up with some decent theories but a few tidbits of false info screw it up for you. planning on paper may look great but little errors make it worthless in the end. you'd probably learn this if you actually got your hands dirty playing with the stuff already. besides, the pgmfi guys have all but gone through almost every possible solution and thrown em out long ago. theyre now trying to move forward with the roms. http://www.pgmfi.org

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black FMIC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Pretty easily. RRR = Rising Rate Regulator which is short for "RRFPR" (Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator"). If you see this as "not a fuel pressure regulator" then you need to do some reading on the purpose and function of an RRR or RRFPR. If you tell it to add X amount of PSI of fuel pressure per PSI of boost, then it would address fuel needs at ANY rpm seeing that it's input isn't RPM dependant, rather boost dependant. If your injectors cause your car to run too rich at low RPM, then dial down the fuel pressure, and dial up the rate (if needed). Calculate your desired fuel presure @ peak boost then work backwards. The ratio is almost always ideal/psi when approached in this manner. This handles the fuel side of the equasion with more range than the S/VAFC.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

umm..how can it increase fuel pressure at low rpm when you're not boosting? it's boost dependent so it has to see boost in order to increase X amounts of fuel pressure at X psi of boost right?
at low rpms or off boosts the rrrfpr is using the stock fuel pressure of the stock regulator (base fuel pressure).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Quote »
Pretty easily. RRR = Rising Rate Regulator which is short for "RRFPR" (Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator"). If you see this as "not a fuel pressure regulator" then you need to do some reading on the purpose and function of an RRR or RRFPR.


*sigh*

Here, let me do your research for you, n00b: http://www.vortechsupercharger....html

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know if the supplied link is supposed to fortify your arguement where you said:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
It does nothing for low end, it is not a FPR, and it hardly does anything for the boost </TD></TR></TABLE>

Here are two samples from your own source that state that RRR's are FPR's:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Basically, an FMU is a fuel pressure regulator.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This came from the first paragraph at the top of the page.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Is it necessary to use a stock or another regulator with the SFMU?
For almost all applications only the SFMU would be used. Using the restrictive stock regulator with the SFMU with a high flow rate pump would cause the rail pressure at idle to be too high and cause a rich condition.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This came form the last paragraph at the bottom of the page. That makes 3 times I've shown you that an RRR is a fuel pressure regulator, which should have been common sense. The fact that you called me a "n00b" is beyond hilarity. I guess one of these days you'll learn, lol.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Honda ECU freaks past 3.0-3.1 volts of the possible output of the stock 1.8 bar sensor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So what happens at the remaining 2.0-1.9v of the spectrum? Where's the manifold pressure at 3.0-3.1v? Honda only coded for 60% of its sensor? Sounds like it's time to bust out the O-scope and see for my self.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You want to DIY with simple electronic gimcrackery? Here, I've already done it for you: http://www.carolinahondas.com/...=1924</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nice mod. I'd still reason to say that I can show another alternative that's just as effective as an AFC and still under its price.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah, but an RRR/RRFPR/FMU won't do that for you. It's just a restriction place in the fuel return, it does nothing to set base pressure.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's not true. The "SFMU" can operate as an FPR all on its own and as a matter of fact, it's reccomended that it is. BTW. They operate from 0in/hg upward. Not at "~3psi" as you stated.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I believe my name is plastered all over http://www.pgmfi.org, and all over this forum advocating PGMFI derived engine management solutions for Hondas. Why don't you do a little research?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Really?? I'll humor your ego. Tell me what I should search under...How about "what does J Davis reccomend for a cost effcient fuel solution" ? nope. Didn't turn up anything....maybe "Fuel solution proposed on Carolina hondas.com". Odd...that didn't turn up anything either. C'mon man, be realistic. Put your ego in your pocket and conduct your self like you know what you're talking about. Admittadly, on some aspects you do, on other aspects you're waaay off.

Truthfully, even if the factory ECU starts to panic at even 2.0v, it wouldn't make a tremendous difference to someone what knows how to tune a vehicle. Any voltage regulation is just to keep it out of limp mode, but the RRR steps in to handle the fuel needs/psi of boost. I've used this method on at least 6 vehicles that I can think of where you WANT the stock ECU to know that you are going into higher manifold pressures so it uses ACTUAL fuel tables and timing tables for your ACTUAL manifold pressure. When you're at the voltage that the map sensor panics at, that's when the RRR comes in adding fuel, and the Zener diode tells the map sensor that everything is A.O.K. because you're doing the fuel maps (which overlap the stock fuel map at that RPM) with the RRR. Logically, when you're into boost, you don't want to be using N/A tables, so that would make using N/A tables in boost as a tremendously bad idea. Use the stock tables to the full extreme of the mani pressure that it will allow, then use the RRR to take over where the ECU isn't written for. Simple as that. Like I said once before, it's really not that hard.


Turb:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">umm..how can it increase fuel pressure at low rpm when you're not boosting? it's boost dependent so it has to see boost in order to increase X amounts of fuel pressure at X psi of boost right?
at low rpms or off boosts the rrrfpr is using the stock fuel pressure of the stock regulator (base fuel pressure).</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because fuel pressure goes up as manifold pressure gets further from 20in/hg. With oversized injectors, you don't want more fuel pressure at low RPM. The error in this trend of thinking is that for some reason, people feel that RPM should decide fuel. This would be true in a supercharged or N/A configuration where the CFM/RPM is consistant, but for a turbo application, that's a bad idea. Fuel should be decided by CFM which in this application will be dictated by PSI. If you're not in boost at say...5800rpm (light throttle for what ever reason) you don't want the ECU to dump 450cc x ~48psi x4 (like you would have programmed it to) and drown your car when it should have fuel to compensate for about 190-210cfm.

Seeing that RRR's can be used as base FPRs, simply dial down on base fuel pressure so the oversized injectors at a stock duty cycle will idle will less difficulty.


Modified by Black FMIC at 6:36 PM 4/7/2004

 

If you used the sfmu wouldn't you be limited in boost by your stock injectors. because it wouldn't idle with 440's. Unless your suggesting trying to run like 20 psi base fuel pressure at idle or something.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you used the sfmu wouldn't you be limited in boost by your stock injectors. because it wouldn't idle with 440's</TD></TR></TABLE>

Definitely. Stock injectors + boost = kablooey. Oversized injectors cause the car to run rich for the same reason an oversized fuel pump will cause the car to run rich. In both cases, the stock ECU's voltage signal is now opening/closing a unit that flows more fluid in the same amount of MS. In the fuel pump's case, 6v may = 88lph where as on a larger pump, 6v = 139lph. As far as the injectors go, the reason it won't idle with 440's is because the stock ECU is still telling the injectors (which it still thinks are stock) to dump fuel for X amount of milliseconds. That span works great on stock injectors, but it's too much time on oversized injectors, so it runs like crap. If you want to reduce the amount of fuel being dumped...
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Unless your suggesting trying to run like 20 psi base fuel pressure at idle or something.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You got it! Granted, 20psi is a loose estimate, but it'll end up being somewhere in that range. Simply reduce the inital line pressure so the injectors won't have so much fuel over them at low RPM. If you have a larger-than-stock pump, you'd go a little lower still.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black FMIC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This came form the last paragraph at the bottom of the page. That makes 3 times I've shown you that an RRR is a fuel pressure regulator, </TD></TR></TABLE>

No, sorry, they cannot. The Vortech Super FMU can, but a regular RRR/FMU cannot. If you had actually READ and UNDERSTOOD the link that I gave you, you would realize that, and I directly quote from Vortech's site, "The FMU is installed just down stream of the stock fuel pressure regulator." Meaning that it is used in tandem with stock or aftermarket FPR, and it is not a stand alone pressure regulator.

Nice how you just adopt "SFMU" into your terminology and keep rolling like you were never wrong.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where's the manifold pressure at 3.0-3.1v? Honda only coded for 60% of its sensor? Sounds like it's time to bust out the O-scope and see for my self.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Helms service literature will save you the trouble, or PHiZ did a write up on the PGMFI wiki.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice mod. I'd still reason to say that I can show another alternative that's just as effective as an AFC and still under its price.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd focus on getting past my first year of EE before I bothered, if I were you.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That's not true. The "SFMU" can operate as an FPR all on its own and as a matter of fact, it's reccomended that it is. BTW. They operate from 0in/hg upward. Not at "~3psi" as you stated.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Whoa up there a second, stunna. SFMU != RRR. You were completely ignorant of Vortech's offering - which costs as much as a used AFC by itself - before I told you about it. Stop telling me how the SFMU behaves and start learning how inept and kludgy your beloved RRR is.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put your ego in your pocket and conduct your self like you know what you're talking about. Admittadly, on some aspects you do, on other aspects you're waaay off.</TD></TR></TABLE>

What aspects am I way off on, "Mister I have not done any of this yet"?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sure. I actually used the incorrect part described above. Instead of a pot, use a Zener Diode. Diode NTE5068A in particular. This with the accompanyment of a RRR = unimaginable tunability being that both are 100% analog.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Black FMIC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
My fault. I'm talking about a zener diode. The S/VAFC's work like an electronic Zener diode. The above resistor trick won't work, but a Zener diode will (and does).
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Uh, no.

Back to radio shack for you.

 

All you need is a simple gain/antenuation circuit. Using an OP amp and a POT. The POT would make it variable so you can still tune. This would cut your voltages by a percentage, what you would want if you're doing the "hack". Errr.....yeah. That sounds about right.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ImAcracker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All you need is a simple gain/antenuation circuit. Using an OP amp and a POT. The POT would make it variable so you can still tune. This would cut your voltages by a percentage, what you would want if you're doing the "hack". Errr.....yeah. That sounds about right. </TD></TR></TABLE>

sounds great, why dont you get right on that. see ya at the track.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ImAcracker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All you need is a simple gain/antenuation circuit. Using an OP amp and a POT. The POT would make it variable so you can still tune. This would cut your voltages by a percentage, what you would want if you're doing the "hack". Errr.....yeah. That sounds about right. </TD></TR></TABLE>

This is assuming you're one of those guys that just sets -35 across the board on your AFC.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falconGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

sounds great, why dont you get right on that. see ya at the track.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why would I do that when I have Uberdata sitting right here?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ImAcracker &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All you need is a simple gain/antenuation circuit. Using an OP amp and a POT. The POT would make it variable so you can still tune. This would cut your voltages by a percentage, what you would want if you're doing the "hack". Errr.....yeah. That sounds about right. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what filetofit did, it's not ideal. The MAP is a pressure sensitive potentiometer. Play around with a voltage dividers a little bit and see how your output goes off and gets itself fucked... you can set a -35% cut, to pick a figure, at one specific MAP voltage output but the signal skews at any other MAP voltage. The further away from your calibrated point, the further you are skewed. With enough opamps and pots you can minimize this... but minimization is not precise razor sharp engine control.

That is why, since the MAP itslef is a linear output, I chose to regulate the MAP's referrence voltage to whatever level I desired, and remap the stock ECU as I saw fit. I did a number of turbo cars, and two GM 2 bar setups, that way. This was all before freeware boost code, so *shrug* I'd discount it as anything more than an amusing trailerpark gimmick from the stoneage of automotive performance enthusiasts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by J. Davis &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">amusing trailerpark gimmick from the stoneage of automotive performance enthusiasts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that should be your title.

 

Cant we all just get along......

P.S, I like the hack...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falconGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

that should be your title.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am a pawn, I have no say in what my title is. I had to beg the mod that banned me for this one, because Mase wouldn't give me any loving!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No, sorry, they cannot. The Vortech Super FMU can, but a regular RRR/FMU cannot.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Wrong again as you're about to see below.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you had actually READ and UNDERSTOOD the link that I gave you, you would realize that, and I directly quote from Vortech's site, "The FMU is installed just down stream of the stock fuel pressure regulator."</TD></TR></TABLE>

And if you had read your own provided link, you'd realize that at two different locations, your source says differently. They even state that mounting both regulators will result in too high of a line pressure.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nice how you just adopt "SFMU" into your terminology and keep rolling like you were never wrong.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I used "SFMU" because that's obviously the link that you supplied me with. I can name 3 others that do the same thing if it would make you feel better, such as the ChillFactory unit, the NeuSpeed unit, and the Bosch unit. If you still want, I'll name 4 more. Any RRR worth the $155-175 you'll be paying for it will physically replace a stock FPR and multiply pressure from there. Don't feed into all this "Billet Anodized!!!" crap.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Helms service literature will save you the trouble, or PHiZ did a write up on the PGMFI wiki.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'll look into it, but I'll still O-scope it my self, just in case.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd focus on getting past my first year of EE before I bothered, if I were you.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Funny stuff. Next time you reprog. a 32bit ECU's Mass air transfer function in pure hex, then I'll attend your classes. Until then, Shhhhh. You'll save your self the embarassment.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Whoa up there a second, stunna. SFMU != RRR. You were completely ignorant of Vortech's offering - which costs as much as a used AFC by itself - before I told you about it. Stop telling me how the SFMU behaves and start learning how inept and kludgy your beloved RRR is.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't know of the SFMU before you told me about it? Then how did I know that RRRs can be used as full replacement FPRs?? A Lucky guess?? I showed you multiple examples of how RRR's work as stock FPRs. Lemme guess...I didn't know about any of the other 7 before you schooled me, right?? LOL!!! Grow up man. The SFMU is just another RRR that actually involves a modicum of engineering in order to replace a stock FPR. Nothing new, nor advanced. I must have used at least 20 of these over the last 4 years on everything from RX-7's to Twin Turbo Cobras and it's no different from all of the other RRR's that weren't thrown together by primates.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What aspects am I way off on, "Mister I have not done any of this yet"?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well, for starters, how a real RRR works. Your examples are of generics and low-qual units. If you have tears in your eyes of the generic RRR's and their inability to operate properly without a stock FPR, then go buy an FPR from a low-line-pressure Honda that suits you and use that instead of your stock one. That way you can save your nickles AND tears in one (cheap) shot. You sound like the average guy that buys a chip burner and thinks that they're a prodigy, but you still have a ton of learning to do. Learning how to tune would help. Learning humilty would be nice as well.

Dustin:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Quote, originally posted by Black FMIC »

My fault. I'm talking about a zener diode. The S/VAFC's work like an electronic Zener diode. The above resistor trick won't work, but a Zener diode will (and does).



Uh, no.

Back to radio shack for you.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Really?? It won't work??? lol, lemme lay back and listen to you tell me why not. Then I'll show you a 1996 911t that it DOES work on and a variety of other cars that it also works on if needed.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FMIC black &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Really?? It won't work??? lol, lemme lay back and listen to you tell me why not. Then I'll show you a 1996 911t that it DOES work on and a variety of other cars that it also works on if needed.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Mr. Dude,

There are ZERO "rpm points" of adjustability with your so-called "solution".

0 &lt; infinite