Ok heres the dillema, I want a reliable street car with decent MPG that will be boosted on a turbonetics T3/t4 kit. I have 2 options as to the build, for starters the head will remain a stock USDM P72 GSR head that is original to my car (Has about 120K on it).....as will the bolt ons for now (manifold, TB etc...). My 2 options for the bottom end are,
Option 1 an LS block that this guy I know built and never got around to using, it has all machine work done, balancing, hone and bore to .20 over, with eagle rods and wiseco pistons 9:1, childs and alberts turbo rings and new bearings. All for $1000 OBO
Option 2 A shop I know had a GSR block that is sleeved and was used all motor with a stroker kit. I can probably get the bare block for about 800 bucks, BUT it needs to be bored and honed as it has some scaring. With this route I would of course need internals.

My budget is limited but I am not one to cheap out, I am willing to wait to get the build done right, the way I figure is option 1 I can have running ASAP! and do I really need a sleeved block or am I getting carried away with the idea of having one?, and option 2 might take a while....my only reason for option 2 is I can turn up the boost ALOT with the sleeved block and make a ton more power, and still just lower it for daily use and MPG. What numbers am I looking to make with Option 2 with upgraded fuel pump, and injectors on the T3/T4 turbo with everything else stock, other than internals (rods and pistons)????

Thanks for all the opinions! They are all valued!!

 

what are your power goals? is this gonna be your DD with some weekend trips to the strip?

i just boosted my set up. i built it to just be a fun DD and i get decent MPG

gsr block
ls crank/eagle rods
wisco flat top pistons (static compression around 10.7:1)
gsr head w/ supertech valvetrain and ITR cams
650cc RC injectors
garett super 50 t3/t4
spoolin log mani/3'' DP
tuned on neptune RTP

i made 270@ 8psi and its lots of fun on the street. i didnt plan for big power when i built it. i was looking for 300-350 on high boost but i forgot my 2.5bar map sensor when i went to the dyno. so ill go back and get retuned and set up my boost by gear. i haven't made it to the track yet to no 1/4 mile times.

the best part is that when i really beat on it, i still get 24mpg and 31mpg when i behave (28-29 mixed)

 

NICE bro! I was actually looking for the same exact setup you have! Same brands and everything, only difference is I am going to leave my gsr head stock with some ITR cams. I was actually also looking for 300-350WHP so I guess I'm gonna need a new MAP sensor, and I'm getting it tuned on Hondata S300. I love the MPG ur getting though, thats gotta be sweet! A question for you though, is there any advantage to using the gsr block vs a LS block? Other than the need for a Vtec conversion kit...?...and yes I am looking for the same thing a nice DD that can hold it's own on the street and on the track...do I need 650 injectors though? I was looking to do 550....

 

well my build started as an ls/vtec build. i went to the machine shop with all my parts and told him what i wanted to do, he offered me a trade for a GSR he had. apparently some kid dropped it off to get machined for the same specs i wanted 2 years ago and never came back for it. all he wanted was enough to cover his labor, so i ordered the plugs to block off the oil squirters and told him to start building.

the GSR block had a few advantages like having a girdle had already having the oiling for a vtec head. plus with the internals for an LS i got a little bit of a stroke for more torque. the stroke bumped my compression up .2 but i was wanted to be around 10.5-11:1 anyway.

550s are good for up to around 375hp but i wanted to keep a little more room to grow if need be and i wanted to keep the injector duty cycle in a nice safe range even when making the most power i could.

if you are gonna use the ITR cams you should get an ITR(at a minimum) valve spring set. i used the super tech valve train with a set of skunk 2 tuner 2 cams from my last build. i traded then for the ITRs before i boosted.

if you want to run more the 10 psi you need a new map sensor. if you have lower compression, you will need more boost to see your power goals. that why i decided to go with higher compression and lower power goals.

ill scan my dyno plot but its not my final run, i only have a 267.9 hp print out

 

he said there was a reason for the hp/tq not crossing at 5252, but i dont remember what it was

 

do the math on injectors

http://www.fuelinjectorconnection.co...widercalc.html

400 crank hp is about 350whp, that would require a 750cc injector if you want a nice 80% duty cycle. you can push them harder but why would you? prices are about the same. might as well do it right the first time

 

i got my injector/hp numbers from evans tuning: pretuning checklist. i was never really any good with math lol

http://www.evans-tuning.com/pre_tuning_checklist.html

but it looks like 650cc injectors are perfect for around 400hp at the crank, 350 wheel

 

why did you set the brake specific fuel consumption so low? .6 is more inline for a turbocharged application

 

honestly, i didnt know what that was, so i left it alone haha

 

Actually, that was pretty damned accurate for B.S.F.C to be about .5. Always best to underestimate

 

Thanks for the info on the injectors guys, definitely getting some bigger ones then.

 

I've heard that Chris Miller, with the world record holding hatch is at xenocron now instead of NRG. You know if thats true?

 

well underestimating would be setting it to .55 or .6 which would come to a 700cc to 750cc injector. still, of course a 650 would work, it just would be at like a 85% cycle

that specific tool just sets to .5 as a default

 

This is news to me! LOL

 

OMGGG! No way, this guy was telling me he was 100% positive it was true, and I was like what I have heard nothing about this! I've been trying to call up NRG and have gotten no response, I don't know what's going on!

 

so did you ever decide on what you were gonna build? if you need a little incentive i just got retuned with the 2.5 bar map sensor.

this is 8ish psi(wg) vs 15psi.


we weren't on a detonation threshold or anything, the log mani just couldnt flow anything more. if we raised boost it would just make the same numbers.

thing is a blast to drive though. i still retain 25-30mpg since i put the boost controller on a switch and can turn it off when i don't need it

good luck with whatever you decide to build!

 

the axes are not scaled the same, so they are like a line off and the tq line needs to be brought down a little bit. i think you are right that its the log manifold, but something is choking you up top seeing the tq drop down like that. either way those are perfect numbers for street driving.


op - pick up that option 1 block. get some arp headstuds and bolt that engine together. make sure you have a nice clutch too.
you dont need a sleeved block, you can make great power safely with a good tune without one.


personally, i would also do these 3 things after getting that option 1 block.
1- invest in a manifold that is equal length
2-pick up a different intake manifold other than the oe gsr, maybe the skunk2 or blox..
3- neptune/hondata/ectune seem like the viable options for tuning. trust me invest in a good program and good tuner. it make such a difference in how well the car runs

happy boosting!