gotboost.ca twincharge civic (procharger and turbo???)
09-12-2008, 07:06 AM
#26
Re: (Boostinb20!)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostinb20! »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My dumb as friend did a set up like this and i made 150 more HP with just a single turbo the reason we found was the boost coming off the turbo was way to much for the secondary turbo and caused lag, another guy tried this with a turbo and a supercharger and the same results the boost would just back up on the Supercharger and it was restricitng more air than anything
Good luck hope it did not coast you much to build it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the supercharger is before the turbo in this setup so the boost would not backup at the supercharger, the turbo is not building boost and then pushing it through the supercharger in this case. however I would think the supercharger once the turbo spools would at some point become a restriction in the intake of the turbo.
EDIT: as for the car/ setup: very different... I give someone
for going out of the box and doing what they wanted to try something like this despite popular opinion. clean setup, interested to hear how the dyno numbers came out and the power under the curve.
Good luck hope it did not coast you much to build it.</TD></TR></TABLE>
the supercharger is before the turbo in this setup so the boost would not backup at the supercharger, the turbo is not building boost and then pushing it through the supercharger in this case. however I would think the supercharger once the turbo spools would at some point become a restriction in the intake of the turbo.
EDIT: as for the car/ setup: very different... I give someone
for going out of the box and doing what they wanted to try something like this despite popular opinion. clean setup, interested to hear how the dyno numbers came out and the power under the curve.
09-12-2008, 07:06 AM
#27
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Re: (Boostinb20!)
My twincharged hatch isn't quite as extreme but it does the job:
441wph 337wtq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnrNzZuXOjg
It does reduce the top end hp a little but the instant torque as soon as you get on the gas is worth it.
441wph 337wtq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnrNzZuXOjg
It does reduce the top end hp a little but the instant torque as soon as you get on the gas is worth it.
09-12-2008, 09:14 AM
#28
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Re: (clemsonhatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by clemsonhatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My twincharged hatch isn't quite as extreme but it does the job:
441wph 337wtq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnrNzZuXOjg
It does reduce the top end hp a little but the instant torque as soon as you get on the gas is worth it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
it seems like in order for a twin charged system to work, the supercharger needs to hit down low, before the turbo spools, then the turbo needs to take over as soon as its spooled. your setup does just that, because it uses a roots blower for down low, then once the turbo is spooled it bypasses the blower and takes over.
with this procharger system is seems like the blower is setup to be spooling the turbo faster, but I think by the time the charger is really comin on strong, the turbo is spooled already, then the s/c seems to become a restriction to the turbo. without seeing a dyno sheet its hard to know for sure.
how much boost is the procharger making, as well as the turbo? i cant really tell what turbo that is either
441wph 337wtq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnrNzZuXOjg
It does reduce the top end hp a little but the instant torque as soon as you get on the gas is worth it.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
it seems like in order for a twin charged system to work, the supercharger needs to hit down low, before the turbo spools, then the turbo needs to take over as soon as its spooled. your setup does just that, because it uses a roots blower for down low, then once the turbo is spooled it bypasses the blower and takes over.
with this procharger system is seems like the blower is setup to be spooling the turbo faster, but I think by the time the charger is really comin on strong, the turbo is spooled already, then the s/c seems to become a restriction to the turbo. without seeing a dyno sheet its hard to know for sure.
how much boost is the procharger making, as well as the turbo? i cant really tell what turbo that is either
09-12-2008, 06:56 PM
#29
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Re: (JRSC01GS-R)
You would think that the better setup would be to have a dual inlet intercooler for say a TT setup and have the Turbo feed into one then the charger in the other with a single outlet going to the T.B, this would leave no restriction on the turbo with still having the loow end trq and power of the S.c?
Just a thought
Just a thought
09-12-2008, 07:07 PM
#30
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here s some video from the dyno
http://videos.streetfire.net/s...st.ca
car running 18 psi and made 410whp and 310lbs
will send the dyno chart later the power band is very good ...
the turbo is a gt45 and procharger is spoolling 14psi...
http://videos.streetfire.net/s...st.ca
car running 18 psi and made 410whp and 310lbs
will send the dyno chart later the power band is very good ...
the turbo is a gt45 and procharger is spoolling 14psi...
09-12-2008, 11:43 PM
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Re: (JRSC01GS-R)
your dyno was done in 3 gear so it s normal you get 441whp do it in 4 gear you will get a bit less then this...
you are running a jackson racing supercharger or a vortec you have any pics from the built up ...
you are running a jackson racing supercharger or a vortec you have any pics from the built up ...
09-13-2008, 06:14 PM
#33
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Re: (civic_sc)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civic_sc »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your dyno was done in 3 gear so it s normal you get 441whp do it in 4 gear you will get a bit less then this...
you are running a jackson racing supercharger or a vortec you have any pics from the built up ...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I must admit your set-up just looks crazy. I hope you reach the power goals you are looking for. I have a feeling when you turn up the boost that turbo is going to wake up. My set-up is not as wild but it works like I need it to. At 19psi it put down 380whp and 280wtq but every dyno is different, I was told that the dyno at Phantasm actually reads lower than others by about 20hp.
The 441whp pull was in 4th, check the video if you want. It's an LS transmission so the gears are long, that pull is to a little over 140mph. I've got more pics but I'm at the SCCA Solo2 Nationals this week so I can post them when I have time or get back to my house. It's a modified Jackson kit pushing a 60-1 with a custom bypass that opens to bybass.
you are running a jackson racing supercharger or a vortec you have any pics from the built up ...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I must admit your set-up just looks crazy. I hope you reach the power goals you are looking for. I have a feeling when you turn up the boost that turbo is going to wake up. My set-up is not as wild but it works like I need it to. At 19psi it put down 380whp and 280wtq but every dyno is different, I was told that the dyno at Phantasm actually reads lower than others by about 20hp.
The 441whp pull was in 4th, check the video if you want. It's an LS transmission so the gears are long, that pull is to a little over 140mph. I've got more pics but I'm at the SCCA Solo2 Nationals this week so I can post them when I have time or get back to my house. It's a modified Jackson kit pushing a 60-1 with a custom bypass that opens to bybass.
10-24-2008, 07:07 AM
#37
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Re: (HybridcivicLS-T)
The only difference is that the torque 'ramp' isn't so steep vs just the turbo alone. It is still a far cry from a more simple large roots-only blower setup, or a smaller roots+bigger turbo. I know the OP will dislike this post, but its the truth.
Just to cover some aspects people aren't getting, which are the main issues:
*The WG is there to bypass the blower. One issue is the SC - even w/o having a closed system to pressurize, it is still doing 'work' to the air, heating it up. IAT's will be higher than the GT45 alone. No benifit over a roots in that case.
*A roots style setup is used to make boost before 2k rpm, which is like a shot of nitrous to help spool the larger turbo. Being a drag car you don't need low-end obviously. But that brings up the last point...
*If the setup worked for making top-end power, I'd expect well over 500whp with 18psi with a bad clutch. I've seen 19psi with a 57trim make 400whp with a fairly simple B18 build. A simple search turned up a GT35R making 500whp at 20psi on pump gas.
Given the space your engine bay has, I really would have gone with a modified M60 instead, maybe an M90. Looking at the Civic on H-T with unique M90 setup, which makes 325whp on 11psi along with 102F IAT's, I think there are better options availible.
Just to cover some aspects people aren't getting, which are the main issues:
*The WG is there to bypass the blower. One issue is the SC - even w/o having a closed system to pressurize, it is still doing 'work' to the air, heating it up. IAT's will be higher than the GT45 alone. No benifit over a roots in that case.
*A roots style setup is used to make boost before 2k rpm, which is like a shot of nitrous to help spool the larger turbo. Being a drag car you don't need low-end obviously. But that brings up the last point...
*If the setup worked for making top-end power, I'd expect well over 500whp with 18psi with a bad clutch. I've seen 19psi with a 57trim make 400whp with a fairly simple B18 build. A simple search turned up a GT35R making 500whp at 20psi on pump gas.
Given the space your engine bay has, I really would have gone with a modified M60 instead, maybe an M90. Looking at the Civic on H-T with unique M90 setup, which makes 325whp on 11psi along with 102F IAT's, I think there are better options availible.
10-24-2008, 12:40 PM
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Re: (HiProfile)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">*The WG is there to bypass the blower. One issue is the SC - even w/o having a closed system to pressurize, it is still doing 'work' to the air, heating it up. IAT's will be higher than the GT45 alone. No benifit over a roots in that case.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
While I agree with you completely. I think your wrong about the s/c heating up the air when its bypassed. Simply because if there is no resistance to charging the air its not gonna pressurize, therefore not creating heat.
Think about it like this. Undo your charge pipe on your turbo setup and rev the motor a few times, place your hand around the outlet area of the compressor and feel the air coming out of the outlet. It barely warmer than ambient, and thats mostly due to heatsoak from the exhaust energy running through the turbo (which you wouldn't get from a belt driven blower).
The wg on the charge pipe is a brilliant idea really, my only concern is that the WG isn't big enough to keep up with airflow. I would be really interested to see if adding another would net a gain in peak power.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only difference is that the torque 'ramp' isn't so steep vs just the turbo alone. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats cause that turbo isnt even spooling. My honest to god opinion is that turbo is too big, period. Which means either;
a) The turbo is too big for that amount of displacement/rpm
or the more likely of the two
b) the S/C is too much of a restriction on the inlet still and the turbo is struggling to make boost
Then really need to step down to something smaller, like a GT40 or 42r. I bet they would see great results with something better sized to the motor.
Modified by Unsivil_audio at 2:50 PM 10/24/2008
</TD></TR></TABLE>
While I agree with you completely. I think your wrong about the s/c heating up the air when its bypassed. Simply because if there is no resistance to charging the air its not gonna pressurize, therefore not creating heat.
Think about it like this. Undo your charge pipe on your turbo setup and rev the motor a few times, place your hand around the outlet area of the compressor and feel the air coming out of the outlet. It barely warmer than ambient, and thats mostly due to heatsoak from the exhaust energy running through the turbo (which you wouldn't get from a belt driven blower).
The wg on the charge pipe is a brilliant idea really, my only concern is that the WG isn't big enough to keep up with airflow. I would be really interested to see if adding another would net a gain in peak power.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The only difference is that the torque 'ramp' isn't so steep vs just the turbo alone. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thats cause that turbo isnt even spooling. My honest to god opinion is that turbo is too big, period. Which means either;
a) The turbo is too big for that amount of displacement/rpm
or the more likely of the two
b) the S/C is too much of a restriction on the inlet still and the turbo is struggling to make boost
Then really need to step down to something smaller, like a GT40 or 42r. I bet they would see great results with something better sized to the motor.
Modified by Unsivil_audio at 2:50 PM 10/24/2008
10-24-2008, 01:05 PM
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Re: gotboost.ca twincharge civic (tony413)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">oh boy why dont you add some N02 while your at it and make this a triplecharged car 
.
i dont see this performing all that well, but thats just me. i want to see the dyno. Also why are you running the supercharger into the turbo compressor ??? i think it would be smarter to just run your supercharger into the intercooler seperate of the turbo comp. i think your just going to make alot heat with your current configuration </TD></TR></TABLE>
My thoughts exactly. That way you are not making the turbo struggle to suck in more air than the charger can feed it. That way the charger just gives you more low end power and you can still make the high HP that a larger turbo can offer. That way you can run something in excess of a GT42 but still get relatively good response time. I don't believe that you guys set this car up well at all with its current setup.
.i dont see this performing all that well, but thats just me. i want to see the dyno. Also why are you running the supercharger into the turbo compressor ??? i think it would be smarter to just run your supercharger into the intercooler seperate of the turbo comp. i think your just going to make alot heat with your current configuration </TD></TR></TABLE>
My thoughts exactly. That way you are not making the turbo struggle to suck in more air than the charger can feed it. That way the charger just gives you more low end power and you can still make the high HP that a larger turbo can offer. That way you can run something in excess of a GT42 but still get relatively good response time. I don't believe that you guys set this car up well at all with its current setup.
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