FJO 341B engine management
not a very popular choice when it comes to stand alones, but their widebands have been proven to be a top notch product.
http://www.fjoracing.com/products/341B/
the things that appeal to me most about the 341B is primarily:
-FJO is based in the same city I live, so factory support is a short drive away. If memory serves me right, one of the owners/engineers at FJO have a 400hp sohc civic EH hatch daily driver with the 341B installed. If I'm going to buy a product, I like to buy a product that has been proven to work on a similar car to mine, and when the company that makes the parts drives the same kind of car as me.
-The price is very attractive, $1000 plus a wiring harness/crank trigger/sensors all of which i would replace anyway if I bought a comparable system from Motec or Autronic... Consider how much cheaper the 341B is than Motec plus M&W ignition, being that the 341B has an integrated high energy ignition. It's capable and ready for OEM coil on plug systems, so why not the Denso Coil sticks off a CBR954 I have kickin' around my shop?
-If it works for 7 second street legal door slammer first gen f bodies like this one: http://www.wallsrodcustom.com/...ist=3 it would work well for my Honda probably.
-The owner of Nitrous Express has it on his insane 427LS7 powered fox body: http://www.wallsrodcustom.com/...st=23
-Local Tuners: The owner of Nitrous Express drove all the way from Texas to Winnipeg (where I live up in Canada) to have it tuned at Wall's Rod and Custom which is like 15 minutes from my house. (same tuner made 230whp/165tq. on a local stock internal K20 with I/H/E and Hondata KPro, not too bad.)
now here's the things that DON'T appeal to me:
-SOMEWHAT UNPROVEN I am really hesitant to buy a product that is not even remotely as popular as Motec, Autronic, etc... Even if their office is 30 minutes away.
-The hardware has the capability of traction control, but at this time they have not implemented it unfortunately... Since I live in the same as town as them it shouldn't be so difficult to rig it up with their factory assistance...
What do you people think? I think I'm going to get it.
http://www.fjoracing.com/products/341B/
the things that appeal to me most about the 341B is primarily:
-FJO is based in the same city I live, so factory support is a short drive away. If memory serves me right, one of the owners/engineers at FJO have a 400hp sohc civic EH hatch daily driver with the 341B installed. If I'm going to buy a product, I like to buy a product that has been proven to work on a similar car to mine, and when the company that makes the parts drives the same kind of car as me.
-The price is very attractive, $1000 plus a wiring harness/crank trigger/sensors all of which i would replace anyway if I bought a comparable system from Motec or Autronic... Consider how much cheaper the 341B is than Motec plus M&W ignition, being that the 341B has an integrated high energy ignition. It's capable and ready for OEM coil on plug systems, so why not the Denso Coil sticks off a CBR954 I have kickin' around my shop?
-If it works for 7 second street legal door slammer first gen f bodies like this one: http://www.wallsrodcustom.com/...ist=3 it would work well for my Honda probably.
-The owner of Nitrous Express has it on his insane 427LS7 powered fox body: http://www.wallsrodcustom.com/...st=23
-Local Tuners: The owner of Nitrous Express drove all the way from Texas to Winnipeg (where I live up in Canada) to have it tuned at Wall's Rod and Custom which is like 15 minutes from my house. (same tuner made 230whp/165tq. on a local stock internal K20 with I/H/E and Hondata KPro, not too bad.)
now here's the things that DON'T appeal to me:
-SOMEWHAT UNPROVEN I am really hesitant to buy a product that is not even remotely as popular as Motec, Autronic, etc... Even if their office is 30 minutes away.
-The hardware has the capability of traction control, but at this time they have not implemented it unfortunately... Since I live in the same as town as them it shouldn't be so difficult to rig it up with their factory assistance...
What do you people think? I think I'm going to get it.
if its is comparable to proven symtems, cheaper and local, it seems like a good idea.
If it doesnt work out, just go there and bitch.
If it doesnt work out, just go there and bitch.
I wonder if it'll be a feature lacking dog like the Microtech LT-x lineup, or a GUI nightmare complete with festering glitches like Nemesis?
Possibly there will only be *slight* math errors in represented values with no fundamental functional flaws like the early DFI Gen 7's hardly noticeable doubling of fuel pulsewidth values, or maybe it will be a fundamental breakdown in understanding ignition timing correction like reverse engineered products such as Hondata and Crome suffered, or obvious continued lack of understanding such as the per gear fuel trims in K-Pro?
I could go on and justifiably finger 25% of the performance aftermarket, the other 75% being just as guilty I merely haven't had a chance to poke at their product yet. Everything out there has issues, 90% of them can be dealt with or worked around, so you better know what they are before you get into a strange EMS. There's a reason why people consistently pick the devil they know.
Frankly, a brand hammer new EMS really requires copious R&D, and some shakedown time to make sure the hardware, firmware, and software function stably let alone as a cohesive unit. The best chance I see you having is that you'll get inadvertently expletiveed on the deal and the unit fries itself randomly, same as everybody with an original AEM EMS did. You do remember AEM using the general public to R&D their product, don't you? Not everybody is as good as AEM was about overnighting replacements and fixing their flaws, and there is a history of the little guy getting **** on while high profile important people are taken care of in every aspect of human business. They are local to you so you tell me, what do you think of them?
Hope you can benefit from my bitter wisdom, most of the caustic language is thrown in for amusement value but the cautionary notes are my honest opinion.
Possibly there will only be *slight* math errors in represented values with no fundamental functional flaws like the early DFI Gen 7's hardly noticeable doubling of fuel pulsewidth values, or maybe it will be a fundamental breakdown in understanding ignition timing correction like reverse engineered products such as Hondata and Crome suffered, or obvious continued lack of understanding such as the per gear fuel trims in K-Pro?
I could go on and justifiably finger 25% of the performance aftermarket, the other 75% being just as guilty I merely haven't had a chance to poke at their product yet. Everything out there has issues, 90% of them can be dealt with or worked around, so you better know what they are before you get into a strange EMS. There's a reason why people consistently pick the devil they know.
Frankly, a brand hammer new EMS really requires copious R&D, and some shakedown time to make sure the hardware, firmware, and software function stably let alone as a cohesive unit. The best chance I see you having is that you'll get inadvertently expletiveed on the deal and the unit fries itself randomly, same as everybody with an original AEM EMS did. You do remember AEM using the general public to R&D their product, don't you? Not everybody is as good as AEM was about overnighting replacements and fixing their flaws, and there is a history of the little guy getting **** on while high profile important people are taken care of in every aspect of human business. They are local to you so you tell me, what do you think of them?
Hope you can benefit from my bitter wisdom, most of the caustic language is thrown in for amusement value but the cautionary notes are my honest opinion.
Originally Posted by Joseph Davis
I wonder if it'll be a feature lacking dog like the Microtech LT-x lineup, or a GUI nightmare complete with festering glitches like Nemesis?
Possibly there will only be *slight* math errors in represented values with no fundamental functional flaws like the early DFI Gen 7's hardly noticeable doubling of fuel pulsewidth values, or maybe it will be a fundamental breakdown in understanding ignition timing correction like reverse engineered products such as Hondata and Crome suffered, or obvious continued lack of understanding such as the per gear fuel trims in K-Pro?
I could go on and justifiably finger 25% of the performance aftermarket, the other 75% being just as guilty I merely haven't had a chance to poke at their product yet. Everything out there has issues, 90% of them can be dealt with or worked around, so you better know what they are before you get into a strange EMS. There's a reason why people consistently pick the devil they know.
Frankly, a brand hammer new EMS really requires copious R&D, and some shakedown time to make sure the hardware, firmware, and software function stably let alone as a cohesive unit. The best chance I see you having is that you'll get inadvertently expletiveed on the deal and the unit fries itself randomly, same as everybody with an original AEM EMS did. You do remember AEM using the general public to R&D their product, don't you? Not everybody is as good as AEM was about overnighting replacements and fixing their flaws, and there is a history of the little guy getting **** on while high profile important people are taken care of in every aspect of human business. They are local to you so you tell me, what do you think of them?
Hope you can benefit from my bitter wisdom, most of the caustic language is thrown in for amusement value but the cautionary notes are my honest opinion.
Possibly there will only be *slight* math errors in represented values with no fundamental functional flaws like the early DFI Gen 7's hardly noticeable doubling of fuel pulsewidth values, or maybe it will be a fundamental breakdown in understanding ignition timing correction like reverse engineered products such as Hondata and Crome suffered, or obvious continued lack of understanding such as the per gear fuel trims in K-Pro?
I could go on and justifiably finger 25% of the performance aftermarket, the other 75% being just as guilty I merely haven't had a chance to poke at their product yet. Everything out there has issues, 90% of them can be dealt with or worked around, so you better know what they are before you get into a strange EMS. There's a reason why people consistently pick the devil they know.
Frankly, a brand hammer new EMS really requires copious R&D, and some shakedown time to make sure the hardware, firmware, and software function stably let alone as a cohesive unit. The best chance I see you having is that you'll get inadvertently expletiveed on the deal and the unit fries itself randomly, same as everybody with an original AEM EMS did. You do remember AEM using the general public to R&D their product, don't you? Not everybody is as good as AEM was about overnighting replacements and fixing their flaws, and there is a history of the little guy getting **** on while high profile important people are taken care of in every aspect of human business. They are local to you so you tell me, what do you think of them?
Hope you can benefit from my bitter wisdom, most of the caustic language is thrown in for amusement value but the cautionary notes are my honest opinion.
Here's an interesting post off a local forum by one of the guys at FJO:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We've been getting a lot of calls regarding the new 2006 FJO pricing since I posted an example earlier on this thread. I've done a comparison in pricing between an FJO 341b2 setup and AEM PnP EMS system. Pricing for FJO is retail list and the AEM components were after searching various online discounters including Summit for the cheapest I could find. Shipping costs for AEM were as advertised for U.S. 50 states. I did not add or subtract for shipping to Canada or passing through customs.
The scenario - A 4 cyl. Integra 2000-2001.
AEM PnP 30-1010 kit 1,872.00 shipped to 50 states
AEM single ch. UEGO + sensor kit 390.00
totalling 2262.00 CDN
FJO 341b2 4 cyl kit - includes 341b2 computer (which includes an FJO single channel wideband built-in), software, wiring harness, data cable, crank trigger wheel and sensor, Bosch 02 sensor and temp cable. Factory intake air, coolant temp and simliar sensors can be used directly.
totalling 1752.25 CDN
Price difference: The FJO is 509.75 cheaper than AEM.
In the next scenario I took the same Integra but assumed a turbocharger / intercooler combo was installed and now the electronics were needed to run it.
AEM PnP 30-1010 kit 1,872.00 shipped to 50 states
AEM single ch. UEGO + sensor kit 390.00
Plus AEM Peak n Hold Inj. driver box 341.00
AEM RTD EGT probe 172.00
4 bar FJO MAP sensor 123.00
FJO dual port boostcontrol solenoid 171.00
totalling 3069.00
FJO 4 cyl kit (as above) 1752.25
FJO Peak n Hold inj. driver 230.00
FJO RTD EGT probe 172.00
4 bar FJO MAP sensor 123.00
FJO dual port boostcontrol solenoid 171.00
totalling 2448.25
Price difference: here the FJO is 620.75 cheaper than AEM.
I used the FJO 4 bar MAP sensor in both cases (since the AEM sensor was more expensive at 163.00) but any MAP sensor can be used by either ECU. Similarly the FJO boost controller solenoid can be used by either. AEM makes an amplifier for using K-type faster repsonse EGTs but I couldn't find a price online for it. I prefer the k-type fast response type EGts to the RTDs ones. The FJO option to upgrade to K-type probe from an RTD is 119.00 .
There are a ton of features in both ECUs and everyone has their preference. One major advantage the 341b2 has over the AEM ECU is the AEM uses only 357 cells for tuning vs 1024 for the FJO. That means the FJO computer can tune to far finer increments to give the smooth power and instant response we're all looking for. Its particularly important to have lots of tuning points when going high boost since the tuning table has to cover a much larger range of pressures.</TD></TR></TABLE>
this press release is from a while ago (at least 4 years ago I think) when they were still on the original 341B (the 341B2 is now the current model, which has GPS standard and probably other changes I'm not aware of.)
Originally Posted by FJO Electronics
FJO Enterprises Inc. is pleased to introduce the FJO 341B Engine Management System. The 341B EMS is a full-featured, standalone, programmable engine management computer that has been designed with the automotive enthusiast in mind.
Utilizing a 32 bit, 20Mhz digital microcontroller, the 341B offers an amazing blend of speed, accuracy and adjustability. This state-of-the-art technology can not only handle an engine's fuel and ignition requirements, but can also control nitrous oxide switching, water injection, turbo charger boost levels and variable valve timing solenoids. The 341B's ability to completely integrate these peripheral devices (and others) ensures smooth and efficient engine operation, without the need to purchase multiple "black boxes" that may suffer from hardware/software conflicts. The 341B's "self learning" fuel maps and Windows98-based menus make programming the unit simpler than ever.
The FJO 341B benefits from FJO Enterprises defence contracting experience. Ruggedly constructed, the 341B uses gold plated, environmentally sealed, positive locking connectors on it's three 35 pin plugs. Delphi "Weatherpac" connectors maintain that quality for all under-hood contacts. Designed from the start with the latest on board digital filtering technology, the 341B is protected from induced noise which eliminates the need for expensive shielded wiring. Multi-layered circuit board design, fully soldered joints and epoxy based potting solutions, ensure the units' continued operation in the harshest of conditions. The functional aluminum housing has been fitted with stainless steel hardware and has been anodized for an attractive, long lasting appearance.
2 type "k" thermocouple inputs
-useful for measuring the temperatures of exhaust gas, cylinder head, turbochargers and other general purpose temperature measurements (0 to +1200 °C)
5 resistive temperature sensor inputs
- useful for measuring the temperature of engine coolant, engine oil, transmission oil, intake air temperature (before and after intercoolers) and others (-40 to +150 °C)
2 manifold air pressure inputs
- used for measuring air pressure inside an engine to determine an engine's fueling requirements, measuring boost levels, etc. (0 to 450 kPa depending on sensor)
2 high pressure inputs
- monitor fuel pressure, oil pressure or coolant pressure, can be configured to act as a failsafe function with too low or too high pressure (0 to 700 kPa)
2 oxygen sensor inputs
- using the optional wideband controller, wideband sensors measure exhaust oxygen content for accurate air/fuel ratio readings (10:1 to 20:1 AFR)
1 crank angle sensor input
- monitors engine crankshaft position to within 0.1 degrees of rotation, for accurate ignition and fuel timing (15000 RPM)
2 knock sensor inputs
- useful to maximize ignition timing, especially on boosted or nitrous oxide motors - two inputs for long 6 cylinder or "V" configured engines
1 throttle position sensor input
- needed to determine throttle plate angle and rate of angle change
8 auxiliary trigger switch inputs
- may be used to enable external devices controlled by the 341B such as: nitrous oxide solenoids, "staged" nitrous activation, water methanol injection, auxiliary rev limiter (for launch control or "valet mode"), turbo timer enable, handbrake position (for turbo timer or anti-theft), super charger clutch enable, etc.
5 auxiliary speed sensor inputs
- shared connection with the auxiliary trigger switch inputs - may be used for speed measurement, traction control (coming soon), etc.
1 battery voltage monitor
- used to monitor battery voltage for compensation to ignition and injectors for starting
4 fuel injector control outputs
- used for control of up to 8 fuel injectors using ICD modules - controls either "peak and hold" (low impedance) or "saturated" (high impedance) injectors
4 ignition outputs
- used for control of up to 4 dual terminal "waste spark" coilpacks using ICD modules
1 idle control output
- used to drive idle control motor for adaptive control of engine idle speed
1 tachometer output
- for most models of factory or aftermarket tachometers
- in some cases, a tachometer adapter is required to convert the 341B tachometer output (12 volt pulses) to higher voltage pulses required by some tachometers
1 switched-to-ground fuel pump output
- controlled switching of an external relay for safe fuel pump operation
4 pulse-width-modulated general use outputs (2 amp max.)
- typically used to control auxiliary injectors - may be used to accurately control turbo charger wastegate actuator
15 switched-to-ground outputs (external relays required where appropriate)
- one of the greatest features of the FJO 341B, these outputs may be configured to smoothly integrate a whole host of external devices. Things such as driver indicator lights, multiple fuel pump control, single or staged nitrous oxide solenoids, water/methanol injectors, boost control devices, supercharger clutch, "VTEC", "T-VIS", "VVTi" or other external intake or cam solenoids, A/C compressor clutch (disable clutch for maximum power on acceleration) and almost any other device that can be controlled with a simple relay, are fully integrated into engine operation. Want to know how long the water/methanol or nitrous solenoids were active on that last pass down the drag strip? No problem, 15 independent time clocks record active on-time for each of the 15 outputs! In addition, one of these outputs can be configured to provide a turbo timer function, eliminating the need to purchase a separate timer!
2 built-in high intensity LED status indicators
- these high intensity indicators can even be seen in bright sunlight and provide status information
1 digital display interface
- for use with the optional digital display, information is updated several times per second
1 laptop interface port
- hook into a laptop with a standard RS-232 port and use our proprietary software for full programmability
1 optional GPS module
- available as a factory-installed option, the Global Positioning Module provides latitude, longitude, heading, speed, and fix quality information
Utilizing a 32 bit, 20Mhz digital microcontroller, the 341B offers an amazing blend of speed, accuracy and adjustability. This state-of-the-art technology can not only handle an engine's fuel and ignition requirements, but can also control nitrous oxide switching, water injection, turbo charger boost levels and variable valve timing solenoids. The 341B's ability to completely integrate these peripheral devices (and others) ensures smooth and efficient engine operation, without the need to purchase multiple "black boxes" that may suffer from hardware/software conflicts. The 341B's "self learning" fuel maps and Windows98-based menus make programming the unit simpler than ever.
The FJO 341B benefits from FJO Enterprises defence contracting experience. Ruggedly constructed, the 341B uses gold plated, environmentally sealed, positive locking connectors on it's three 35 pin plugs. Delphi "Weatherpac" connectors maintain that quality for all under-hood contacts. Designed from the start with the latest on board digital filtering technology, the 341B is protected from induced noise which eliminates the need for expensive shielded wiring. Multi-layered circuit board design, fully soldered joints and epoxy based potting solutions, ensure the units' continued operation in the harshest of conditions. The functional aluminum housing has been fitted with stainless steel hardware and has been anodized for an attractive, long lasting appearance.
2 type "k" thermocouple inputs
-useful for measuring the temperatures of exhaust gas, cylinder head, turbochargers and other general purpose temperature measurements (0 to +1200 °C)
5 resistive temperature sensor inputs
- useful for measuring the temperature of engine coolant, engine oil, transmission oil, intake air temperature (before and after intercoolers) and others (-40 to +150 °C)
2 manifold air pressure inputs
- used for measuring air pressure inside an engine to determine an engine's fueling requirements, measuring boost levels, etc. (0 to 450 kPa depending on sensor)
2 high pressure inputs
- monitor fuel pressure, oil pressure or coolant pressure, can be configured to act as a failsafe function with too low or too high pressure (0 to 700 kPa)
2 oxygen sensor inputs
- using the optional wideband controller, wideband sensors measure exhaust oxygen content for accurate air/fuel ratio readings (10:1 to 20:1 AFR)
1 crank angle sensor input
- monitors engine crankshaft position to within 0.1 degrees of rotation, for accurate ignition and fuel timing (15000 RPM)
2 knock sensor inputs
- useful to maximize ignition timing, especially on boosted or nitrous oxide motors - two inputs for long 6 cylinder or "V" configured engines
1 throttle position sensor input
- needed to determine throttle plate angle and rate of angle change
8 auxiliary trigger switch inputs
- may be used to enable external devices controlled by the 341B such as: nitrous oxide solenoids, "staged" nitrous activation, water methanol injection, auxiliary rev limiter (for launch control or "valet mode"), turbo timer enable, handbrake position (for turbo timer or anti-theft), super charger clutch enable, etc.
5 auxiliary speed sensor inputs
- shared connection with the auxiliary trigger switch inputs - may be used for speed measurement, traction control (coming soon), etc.
1 battery voltage monitor
- used to monitor battery voltage for compensation to ignition and injectors for starting
4 fuel injector control outputs
- used for control of up to 8 fuel injectors using ICD modules - controls either "peak and hold" (low impedance) or "saturated" (high impedance) injectors
4 ignition outputs
- used for control of up to 4 dual terminal "waste spark" coilpacks using ICD modules
1 idle control output
- used to drive idle control motor for adaptive control of engine idle speed
1 tachometer output
- for most models of factory or aftermarket tachometers
- in some cases, a tachometer adapter is required to convert the 341B tachometer output (12 volt pulses) to higher voltage pulses required by some tachometers
1 switched-to-ground fuel pump output
- controlled switching of an external relay for safe fuel pump operation
4 pulse-width-modulated general use outputs (2 amp max.)
- typically used to control auxiliary injectors - may be used to accurately control turbo charger wastegate actuator
15 switched-to-ground outputs (external relays required where appropriate)
- one of the greatest features of the FJO 341B, these outputs may be configured to smoothly integrate a whole host of external devices. Things such as driver indicator lights, multiple fuel pump control, single or staged nitrous oxide solenoids, water/methanol injectors, boost control devices, supercharger clutch, "VTEC", "T-VIS", "VVTi" or other external intake or cam solenoids, A/C compressor clutch (disable clutch for maximum power on acceleration) and almost any other device that can be controlled with a simple relay, are fully integrated into engine operation. Want to know how long the water/methanol or nitrous solenoids were active on that last pass down the drag strip? No problem, 15 independent time clocks record active on-time for each of the 15 outputs! In addition, one of these outputs can be configured to provide a turbo timer function, eliminating the need to purchase a separate timer!
2 built-in high intensity LED status indicators
- these high intensity indicators can even be seen in bright sunlight and provide status information
1 digital display interface
- for use with the optional digital display, information is updated several times per second
1 laptop interface port
- hook into a laptop with a standard RS-232 port and use our proprietary software for full programmability
1 optional GPS module
- available as a factory-installed option, the Global Positioning Module provides latitude, longitude, heading, speed, and fix quality information
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Justin Jones »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My judge of character of the company itself is that they are good guys that know their ****. They have participated on a local message board in the past, have conducted themselves professionally and have earned a great reputation locally for fantastic customer service.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's all I'd have to know.
Keep us updated, I'm curious.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's all I'd have to know.
Keep us updated, I'm curious.
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htludernewbie
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Aug 24, 2002 08:45 PM





