Hopefully not too off topic.... friends STi prior to the meth injection used to run about 96% injector duty cycle, after the meth install he went with a 50/50 meth setup and went for a retune, and his power went up about 30whp and 100ft/lb and dropped injector duty cycle to 88%. He was able to go from 19psi to 24psi on stock turbo. Whenever real meth is added and not water, you need to retune because their is excessive fuel. When the kit was installed he went from the original 11.7:1 AFR to 11.1:1 AFR. Meth is flammable. Fuel will need to be pulled. These are all the basics of using meth..... why anyone would use water is beyond me.

 

People use water for the cooling properties, not everyone needs the additional fuel

 

It's an absolute waste. Those are the same uneducated people who are buying 300 dollar kits with no fail safes. The price of meth is soo cheap it's foolish to not use it, the amount of power that can be gained is unreal. The amount of insurance it gives is totally worth it.

 

^^
Explain? For some reason your saying the opposite of anyone who has found good reaults.

 

What do I need to explain? How the cheap kits have lousy failsafes? The added benefits of having 100+ octane all day long for added reliability?

 

The reason people spray water is because of its unique properties, i.e. the SPECIFIC HEAT of water is VERY high. A gram of water takes CONSIDERABLY more heat to vaporize than methanol, ethanol, or gasoline. I don't know of many people just spraying water (it would give you the best cooling effect), but noone does that b/c the water doesn't help in the combustion chamber. Water is not all we're talking about, here. Like you said, methanol is a FUEL. It's not just sprayed because people need the "extra fuel." There's more to it than that. Not only is methanol a fuel, but it increases the effective octane of the charge in the cylinder. This would allow you to run more advanced timing and theoretically, make more power.

We're not talking about whether or not in theory methanol will allow you to run more boost and make more power. That principle is not in debate. The question is whether or not it would be something beneficial on an M62 system that's already spinning it's *** off and likely at the edge of it's efficiency envelope.

I wish there was someone with an LHT intercooled setup with a methanol injection kit laying around that has access to a dyno and the desire to see if it helps. Find someone with all 4 of those, and we're in business! Until then, we can talk about this without any kind of knowledge gained.

Personally, I think it MIGHT just work. Question is: whether or not we can find someone with the resources that feels it's worth the effort to find out.

I'm in the middle of building an LHT Intercooled system, but I don't have a kit or access to a dyno. Lemme know if someone wants to do a day of tests with a kit on a dyno and we can use my car as a mule.

 

How did we even get on the topic of fail safes?

Yes 100 octane is nice, but what the JRSC needs most is the greater cooling effects of water. This is a JRSC specific application.

 

It will likely work, but why go through the cost and effort?

CRock, have you gotten your charger installed and running yet? I'm on my second setup and wanna throw it away every time I mess with it. Upgrades are few and far between and take forever to have custom made. Have you done anything to improve the inlet yet? There is likely more to be gained there than running a dual cooling setup.

 

I still want to know what I need to explain? If you wanted to use alcohol instead of methanol that would be essentially chemical cooling.

 

Well that proves you have no idea what your talking about.

Methanol is alcohol.....

 

Good chance you're right. I wish LHT could've come up with a cost effective way to build those S-Tubes. He's said a couple times that the cost was STUPID high. As far as mine, I just have an LHT ported S-Tube.

My engine's on the stand and the cams are degreed in. The "little stuff" is owning me. That, and motivation has been lacking, lately.

Got some work done to my header, though.
Before:


After welding:


If you're wondering, what we did was hack off the JACKED up flange and weld on a 2.5" V-band, then a 2.5" to 3" transition with an O2 bung, then into a 3" flex pipe. Now, the header (portion before the V-Band) is going to be sandblasted and ceramic coated.


methan- = One carbon
-ol = OH group bonded to that carbon, a.k.a. ALCOHOL group <-- Not to be confused with THAT stuff. It's ETHANol. That's TWO carbons for all you kiddos. If you're drinking alcohol, make sure it has TWO carbons. That other sh*t will kill ya!

 

I'm running water. Distilled water (no meth). Some of use do not have the luxury of using methanol. In my case is it due to racing class rules. SCCA Solo 2 rules do not permit alcohol injection unless it is an OEM installation. This is a safety issue. My intake temps dropped from 255+ degrees to 150-160 degrees. No, I'm not LHT cooled. However, the water did allow me to run much higher ignition timing than I ever could without.

 

I've spoke with LHT about the inlets too, they can be made with $20 in materials I'm not sure why they claim high costs. Maybe there just not as high of a profit margin as the ridiculous price they charge for the after coolers. I'm having one made elsewhere I gave $50 in flanges and tubing and 200+ in welding. If you can make your own flanges and weld it can be done for a kit cheaper.

FYI anyone looking for the heat exchangers can find them for less than half of what LHT charges direct from magnisun. Or on eBay for around $100

 

Really? Really? Methanol is the simplest alcohol compound, comprised of one carbon atom, one oxygen atom and four hydrogen atoms (CH3OH). It is also referred to as wood alcohol, carbinol and methyl alcohol. It is poisonous, flammable and relatively volatile.

Your not going to tell me that methanol is the same as denatured alcohol are you.

Many, in fact, in the subaru world, most ppl run a 50/50 mix of distilled water and alcohol. The difference in what the alcohol injection does for your car is small vs true methanol. Figure if straight alch would yeild you a 110octane charge, figure 50/50 would net you 108ish. I am totally talking off the top of my head, but I use those numbers to illustrate how small the difference is.
Also, if you mix, you end up with 2 gallons of mix. Which means for about $13 max, you get 4-6 tanks of gas worth of alc injecting goodness. That drastically lowers the cost to run this

The type is "Denatured Alcohol". Rubbing alcohol can be used too. If you are tuned for denatured, and you cant find any for some reason, you can stop at any grocery store, or drug store, and buy rubbing alcohol, dump it in, fill that bottle with water, and dump that in.

Tune will be SLIGHTLY different than denatured
* Methanol might be harder on the seals in the pump than Denatured.

Thanks for trying to prove me wrong.. but you are mistaken about what you know. I understand not everyone has access to methanol, however any motorcycle/atv shop can get it since VP produces it. Most racetracks can get it as well since most of them also deal VP products, at least all the tracks in NJ sell meth by the gallon. Rubbing alcohol is significantly cheaper than meth, although meth isn't really pricey rubbing alcohol is dirt cheap.

 

The main reason i'm going with a LHT intercooler is because this is my daily driver / track car and i dont fell like pulling over to fill up the meth tank. I live in Finland and we dont have to high outside temps so i thing the engine will handel that.

boost Outside temp Intake temp
10 psi 20 c / 68 f 97 c / 206 f

LHT intercooler should reduce intake temperatures by 28-38 C / 50-70 F
So that would give me an intake temp on about 70 celcius. And is there anyone the have tryed to run fans on the LHT Heat exchanger?

 

Yeah, I think Veris ran some on his H/E. Seems like a lot of people just rely on the air from the car's moving to pull enough air.

Click on the arrow from this quote. It'll show you some images.