forryk

Hey! Been driving around in my b16 jrsc at 9psi for a month now and incoming winter i'm going to get a full rebuild on the engine. Here's the setup, give me some comments on what you think i could change.

B18c4 block
B16a2 head

- Walbro fuel pump
- RC 550cc injectors
- Skunk2 Pro series cam gears
- 70mm TB with 3" pipes to the 6" velocity stack
- ITR Camshafts
- Eagle h-beam
- Wiseco Forged pistons 9:1
- ACL Race Bearings for a b18c block
- RCrew 3" Exhuast for Civic coupe 99 (EM1)
- Kamikaze header
- ARP headstuds for b18c block with b16 head
- Type-r oil pump
- Mishimoto radiator
- LHT Performance IM
- 12-14psi boost

kyden

i would go higher compression.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Easily. Though JRSC are forced induction, you don't look at them the same way as turbocharging. You need a good static compression to get that SC to get going a bit faster.

cibao2ner

since your gonna build it go with at least 10.5 to 1 and use ls crank and rods and stroke it...and it should be fun...

DDTECH

11.0 is what i'd run and bump it up to about 12 psi..

blowededup

^^ what he said, but start spraying meth or convert to E85, too. Keep those IATs down!

turbohatch96y7

iTrader: (15)

I would go with a gt30r and have more fun easier.

forryk

Okey, so little more comp. What about the exhuast? Not to big?

C_Rock77

Agreed. Sounds like my project.



IDK if I'd go quite THAT high on the static CR. I'd asked this question, before, and most of the suggestions were NOT to go as high as 11:1. The JRSC (even with LHT Intercooler) still produces more heat than an intercooled turbo setup, thus making it a bit harder to tune.

No offense, Derek, but I trust John's judgment on this matter more than yours. This coming from the guy that designed the LHT system and has built multiple cars with these setups:

No. You're on the right track with your exhaust.

If you want a little more oomph, you can have a small nitrous shot. People have reported some positive results from that. Just be careful it's not too big. Hitting the HOT blower rotors with a large COLD nitrous shot would NOT be something I'd recommend.

forryk

Thanks for the answer! The last question i have is that this is going to be my daily driver / track car. Can i go to the track without worring about the intake temps getting to high on 12psi boost? What psi would you recommend? The goal is to make just over 300whp.

cibao2ner

if you worried about intake temps another option that works is methanol injection...alot of people use it to make power on pump gas and boost...will also cool down intake charge..

forryk

Yeah i have been thinking about that, but right now i really just wanna go with the LHT cooling system. So what boost will be "safe" to run?

Natural Aspirations

It seems as if the SC get a bit un-efficient above 10psi, it will make more power above that but the gains become less and the heat skyrockets.

My build is very similar to your but I opted for the methanol injection over the LHT due to cost and the gain in octane from the methanol.

forryk

Will i make 300 whp with 10-11 psi with my setup then?

Jaker

Probably not. You will not have enough displacement. There are several 300whp JRSC builds in this thread:

https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/%2A%2A%2A-official-jrsc-thread%2A%2A%2A-1214810/

DDTECH

Who's john?

and i wouldn't run anything smaller then a 2.5'' at least...

Its becoming common knowledge that cars with higher compression reguardless if its NA, turbo or Nitrous or SC, they make better power, @ lower boost levels..this is something some people already know, but i'm just speaking from tuning multiple cars.

C_Rock77

The man that designed the LHT Intercooler...the guy that started LHT.
Sorry, I meant to quote him in my previous reply. I'm editing the reply, now. Look in my previous reply and follow the quote from CRVRX & you'll see the thread I started a while back.

Neither would I. Hence my recommendation to stick with the 3".

I realize that. It also makes it more difficult to tune safely.

I always laugh when people reference that thread. Like anyone is going to sit down and read that insanely huge thing. IMO, Turbo, N20, and JRSC need their OWN forums. That thread is like a forum, in itself, except it's almost impossible to search efficiently.

Don't get hung up on the 300whp number. Your torque curve will be much wider and come on sooner than a turbo car.

forryk

Yeah i've been reading that thread alot. Here's a nice setup i found http://ftlracing.com/members/jadkar/index.html . But i'm not in to resleeving the block... Can you place like a b20 crank into the b18 block?

C_Rock77

Yeah...they're the same crank. The difference between a B18A/B and B20 is the bore, not the stroke.

Something I've been wondering about and noone has done yet...is trying meth/water injection IN CONCERT with an LHT manifold. An acquaintance of mine had a Cobalt SS with the Eaton M62 (they used heat exchangers, too, but I'm not sure of the configuration), and used water/meth. He said it made a WORLD of difference.

The catch is that the people that have tried it actually reported a power LOSS, which I don't understand, considering the methanol will lower IATs AND boost octane. RMcDaniels (or someone knowledgeable, maybe Veris) even suggested that this could've been due to NOT pulling fuel to compensate for the methanol spraying (thus, making it run rich).

I'd like to see if this is true with someone taking all this into account and tuning for it.

Natural Aspirations

If I were to guess the water mist likely goatskins laminova cores and reduce their efficientcy.

The LHT is a nice one and done mod, but seems to have it's limits.

C_Rock77

I could see that happening with a water injection...but the methanol will reduce the surface tension of the water and lower the boiling point while raising the octane of the fuel charge. So, I wonder how much "Goatskinning" would be occurring.

Jaker

I use water injection in my setup, and am tuned for it. We got to 222whp and 174 ft/lbs of torque on a stock D16Z6 head with a 10.5:1 built bottom end (stock sleeves) before we lost a sleeve. We were up to 20 degrees of advance. The sleeve was not lost due to detonation.

The tuning is the key with water injection. My IATs were 150 degrees or less, even after several pulls with a short cool down period between runs. Oh, and I was running the largest water injection nozzle that comes with the AEM kit (550cc).

C_Rock77

Jaker, I'm sure we all appreciate your input, but that comparison is apples to oranges. All this is theory and conjecture, really. We can say all these things about what we THINK the benefits/disadvantages of running water/meth on an LHT intercooled setup would be, but as far as my reading has told me, it's been done ONCE. Most people take an either/or approach. The only example of someone trying it that I've seen seemed that full advantage may have not been taken in the tuning dept. I THINK it was RMcDaniels, and it was said that a lot of people thought that the water/meth was enriching the fuel/air charge to the point that it was losing power. That THEORY makes perfect sense. The question is whether or not it can be backed up in real-world experience and fuel be taken out to compensate for the added fuel (methanol).

If you want to try water/meth on an LHT intercooled SC setup, Let us know your results!

forryk

Here's what i'm going to run till i get money for a b18 resleeved block.

- Stock b16 block
- ARP headstuds
- RCrew 3" Exhuast
- Kamikaze header
- LHT IM
- 3,4" Pulley, should give me about 10-11psi boost
- 70mm TB
- 6" velocity stack
- RC550cc injectors
- Walbro pump
- Mishimoto radiator
- ITR camshafts
- Skunk2 pro series cam gears
- Hondata IM gasket
- Tuned with p28 Crome

What do you think? Will i take a day on the track? And what's hp numbers i'm looking at?

Natural Aspirations

I think that after anyone purchases a JRSC upgrades to LHT soon realizes that they already have too much wrapped up into a setup that is flow limited and needs to go another route.

Once you have spent money on the LHT mod or Methanol injection money can be better spent in other places to improve the car.

Last the JRSC will never be an ideal drag or road racing choice and makes plenty of power for autocross.