Does it worth the extra $$$$
05-08-2007, 08:40 PM
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Does it worth the extra $$$$
Hi.
I was wondering if a street daily drive worth the extra money to build the internal bottom. (pistons, rods, headgasket)
or is it fine just to put that money on something else. aiming for 300 if possible 320 if it does not compromise safety.
Civic Si ´00 B16A2
Set up. will be.
GT28RS, Quick 4 Manifold, 3¨DP, 3¨cat and exahust. 255 fuel pump, 525´s injectors. S300, 3 bar map
what do you think will it be the way to go.
I was wondering if a street daily drive worth the extra money to build the internal bottom. (pistons, rods, headgasket)
or is it fine just to put that money on something else. aiming for 300 if possible 320 if it does not compromise safety.
Civic Si ´00 B16A2
Set up. will be.
GT28RS, Quick 4 Manifold, 3¨DP, 3¨cat and exahust. 255 fuel pump, 525´s injectors. S300, 3 bar map
what do you think will it be the way to go.
05-08-2007, 08:56 PM
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It's always worth building the bottom end. Unless of course you were building a HMT set-up, then who cares right?
Honestly most b16's can hold high 200's on stock blocks, but that doesn't always mean that yours will. Since your goal is for 300+ i would suggest saving up to build the block.
Honestly most b16's can hold high 200's on stock blocks, but that doesn't always mean that yours will. Since your goal is for 300+ i would suggest saving up to build the block.
05-08-2007, 11:17 PM
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Re: (Javcolin)
It all depends on your experience and ability to handle very tight tollerances. Some people slap **** together, let dirt get everywhere, not care about clearances, and end up with spinning bearings, severe blow-by, and a big hole in their pocket. But for 300whp and a long-term DD, its a good idea. A good B16 block is around $3-400 & a HG $75ish, while you can get rods/pistons/bearings for under $900. The later will hold twice the power if you so desire later.
The easiest way to go NA is to carelessly fiddle with your turbo setup...
The easiest way to go NA is to carelessly fiddle with your turbo setup...
05-09-2007, 06:54 AM
#7
Man U FTW
building the bottom end is definately a great step because it increases your potential power a lot, but it isn't necessary to hit 300whp...you can do that on stock
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05-09-2007, 12:37 PM
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Re: (Schister66)
But with internals, it will be much more reliable at 300whp. Compare two motors, a 300whp on stock motor to a 300whp with internals (same motor, same turbo setup), even with a good tune on both seups, the one with internals will hold out much longer.
05-09-2007, 01:03 PM
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Re: (VTECth1s)
You know there are a couple of old saying. "K.I.S.S." and "Build it right the first time, not have to worry about it in the long run". 
05-09-2007, 03:59 PM
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Re: (VTECth1s)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECth1s »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But with internals, it will be much more reliable at 300whp. Compare two motors, a 300whp on stock motor to a 300whp with internals (same motor, same turbo setup), even with a good tune on both seups, the one with internals will hold out much longer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
why do you say that?
why do you say that?
05-09-2007, 04:11 PM
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Re: (VTECth1s)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTECth1s »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But with internals, it will be much more reliable at 300whp. Compare two motors, a 300whp on stock motor to a 300whp with internals (same motor, same turbo setup), even with a good tune on both seups, the one with internals will hold out much longer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Aftermarket rods are usually extremely heavy, which means greater stress on the bearings, journals, crank, etc. I'd say the factory one will last longer.
Aftermarket rods are usually extremely heavy, which means greater stress on the bearings, journals, crank, etc. I'd say the factory one will last longer.
05-09-2007, 04:38 PM
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Re: (Semtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Semtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Aftermarket rods are usually extremely heavy, which means greater stress on the bearings, journals, crank, etc. I'd say the factory one will last longer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Proof?
Then why aren't all High HP engines running stock internals?
They aren't because stock internals were not designed to be under the stress of 300+whp. Now, that does not mean that they aren't capable of holding that power. It means that they will not last as long as they would as if it were under the stock 135whp. Bottom line is Honda did not design the b16's to make 300+whp, other whys they would come that way from the factory.
Aftermarket rods are usually extremely heavy, which means greater stress on the bearings, journals, crank, etc. I'd say the factory one will last longer.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Proof?
Then why aren't all High HP engines running stock internals?
They aren't because stock internals were not designed to be under the stress of 300+whp. Now, that does not mean that they aren't capable of holding that power. It means that they will not last as long as they would as if it were under the stock 135whp. Bottom line is Honda did not design the b16's to make 300+whp, other whys they would come that way from the factory.
05-09-2007, 05:23 PM
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Re: (90sedan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 90sedan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Proof?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you daft? It's common ******* sense. Nobody wants a monster set of steel I-beam rods weighing down their rotating assembly, but it's the price we pay for added tensile strength.
Internal combustion motors are a horrible design. No matter how "balanced" we can make them, it doesn't change the fact that each piston/rod is constantly being jerked in opposing directions. What do you think puts more stress on the rod journals - the constant, near instantaneous acceleration/decceleration of a light rod (less inertia), or that of a heavy aftermarket rod (more inertia)?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They aren't because stock internals were not designed to be under the stress of 300+whp. Now, that does not mean that they aren't capable of holding that power. It means that they will not last as long as they would as if it were under the stock 135whp. Bottom line is Honda did not design the b16's to make 300+whp, other whys they would come that way from the factory. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Really, so you've gone to Honda and studied their design sheets and know the exact safety factor built into their engine components? Or perhaps you've done cyclic stress fatigue analysis on their rods?
Bottom line, heavier rods = greater internal stresses. There are a hundred factors that would have to be considered in determining whether a built motor will outlast a factory one. I'm not going to waste my timing going over them all, but I will summarize what I'm trying to get at: You cannot make a wild statement such as "built motors will outlast factory motors" because it will make you look foolish and uneducated.
Proof?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Are you daft? It's common ******* sense. Nobody wants a monster set of steel I-beam rods weighing down their rotating assembly, but it's the price we pay for added tensile strength.
Internal combustion motors are a horrible design. No matter how "balanced" we can make them, it doesn't change the fact that each piston/rod is constantly being jerked in opposing directions. What do you think puts more stress on the rod journals - the constant, near instantaneous acceleration/decceleration of a light rod (less inertia), or that of a heavy aftermarket rod (more inertia)?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They aren't because stock internals were not designed to be under the stress of 300+whp. Now, that does not mean that they aren't capable of holding that power. It means that they will not last as long as they would as if it were under the stock 135whp. Bottom line is Honda did not design the b16's to make 300+whp, other whys they would come that way from the factory. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Really, so you've gone to Honda and studied their design sheets and know the exact safety factor built into their engine components? Or perhaps you've done cyclic stress fatigue analysis on their rods?
Bottom line, heavier rods = greater internal stresses. There are a hundred factors that would have to be considered in determining whether a built motor will outlast a factory one. I'm not going to waste my timing going over them all, but I will summarize what I'm trying to get at: You cannot make a wild statement such as "built motors will outlast factory motors" because it will make you look foolish and uneducated.
05-09-2007, 05:59 PM
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Re: (Semtec)
im not jumping into this too far other than i want to say that a local stock car team runs honda/acura (i know same ****** thing) rods in their race cars that make lots of power. they shot peen them and do a little machine work to make them match the crank, but they love the light weight and strength for what they do. THey are a competitive team with a high budget so... Im just throwing that out there and not picking sides either way. dont let this turn into a badass internet smack talk thread, just share your opinions and experience and help the OP out. If you want to take it up with another poster in a way that isnt beneficial to helping others learn, use the PM button. 
05-09-2007, 10:44 PM
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Re: (gator88)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by gator88 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im not jumping into this too far other than i want to say that a local stock car team runs honda/acura (i know same ****** thing) rods in their race cars that make lots of power. they shot peen them and do a little machine work to make them match the crank, but they love the light weight and strength for what they do. THey are a competitive team with a high budget so... Im just throwing that out there and not picking sides either way. dont let this turn into a badass internet smack talk thread, just share your opinions and experience and help the OP out. If you want to take it up with another poster in a way that isnt beneficial to helping others learn, use the PM button. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Thankyou.. Well said..
</TD></TR></TABLE>Thankyou.. Well said..
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