riceball777

Here are pics of my custom made garrett 24x12x3.5 intercooler. Garrett intercooler cores are the only way to go. The fins are very densly packed. Ebay intercoolers have at least twice the space between the fins compared to my garrett intercooler.
This intercooler is rated at 900hp and i only have about 500whp so i wonder if there are any negative things of having an over sized intercooler?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

The real issues with running something like running "Really big", specifically with a core like Garrett, is proper airflow to other components, like Any A/C condensers, Oil coolers, and radiators. Garrett cores of that size don't like to "share" air that it exchanges with. You look as though you have the '04 model which uses 2 rows of fins per core, and not the '11 model which uses 3 rows of louvered fins per core. (In this case, for your purposes it really doesn't matter, its more than efficient enough).

Most of the other cores like Mishimoto and others of the sort, don't have that much of a problem, but that also means that it needs LOTS of surface area compared to a Garrett core to exchange air effectively. This may mean modifications to the bumper have to be made to allow better access to air for the lesser efficient coolers to work properly.

For best results, oil coolers should have access to their own independent air source if possible and not in the direct path behind the intercooler. Radiators with enough capacity can share a bit better for large intercoolers that take up the entire area, but by how much exactly is drawn away is on a case-by-case basis.

So, No, there's typically nothing wrong with going "over sized" for the power need, but take some precautions and be sure that other air exchanging components get to have proper air too.

boostedjd

may be a lil off topic but the intercooler i got with my car is old and the fins are bent so im considering getting a new one but regarding how they are measured is it just the actual fin part of the intercooler right?

riceball777

You are correct as this is a very old intercooler. Are the new 2011 garrett intercoolers a lot better?

As far as air flow. This intercooler does block the whole front entrance for the radiator. I even have an oil cooler behind the intercooler. So with the intercooler, oil cooler and ac condenser all in front of the radiator the car still never over heats even in hot summer days in stop and go traffic with the ac on.

I'm contemplating about taking my s2000 to a track day but never have due to the fear of over heating and stuff in the engine bay melting due to the turbo setup.

I usually taking the evo for track days and the s2000 for autocross.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

For a size like you have no. I don't think there's any real advantage from the '04 to the '11 units. I see the biggest differences in the smaller cores (under 18" in length and under 8" in height) that show a much better advantage with the additional third row than the larger units. But you do notice that (under Garrett's own admission) that they under rate these cores, unlike Precision who overrates them. Its rather interesting.

Well, that's to be expected in normal driving conditions. Even on hot days with the rigors of commuting, its not expected to see much of a change from normal. (If there were, that means the equipment was old or wearing out anyway). It is only when the system is under true stress that you'd see the gremlins rear their ugly heads.

I've been doing it for years (on the circuit, not drag strip), and got through it every time. Its all about the proper preparation of lubrication, cooling (both fluids and items that protect against exogenric effects, such as blankets, wraps, tapes, and proper location of certain devices.) Having A/C does hinder some things, but that's up to the individual owner to address


Well, precisely. Note the location of the oil cooler on your Evolution in relation to where its located behind the intercooler in your S2000. Having an independent location makes a world of difference when you're in situations that oil temperature increase is expected

integlspwr2k

iTrader: (3)

I know it was asked by a few people in the thread, but I dont think it was ever asnwered. How are the Treadstone Intercoolers compared to Apexi, ARC, Garret 2011 Cores?

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com...ercooler+480HP

Im wondering why its soo cheap Retail pricing..

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Treadstone over the years is about in the same class as Mishimoto. Not as bad as eBay, but takes a lot of surface area to do the job. So the 480hp intercooler is good to about 400whp.. max. Standard bad fin design, see page 3 of the design structures.

Those treadstones couldn't pray enough to get remotely close to an ARC, or Apex'i much less a Garrett 2011 edition

KevinEF7

One of the best threads Ive come across on here, just stuffed full of tech and excellent pictures make it so much easier to put words into vision. Thanks Shodan, appreciate you sharing your knowledge

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I still like my PWR units.

Although I would kill for an arc or apexi core... maybe even a Garrett if I could sell my two pwr units for close to actual value

integlspwr2k

iTrader: (3)

400MAX on a 480hp. mhmm thats not a very efficient intercooler. Looking like 350 and its at its at its peak efficiently range.

I'll stick with Apexi, ARC, and Garret 2011.

peaceable

iTrader: (1)

It'd be nice to see some air/water intercooler examples in the thread. For the most part, we've been seeing contempory in the box coolers. That's fine as surely they have their advantages, but the others are still used for their advantages as well. How about broadening the discussion?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Also endtank design plays a lot in efficiency... the only real way to ensure proper air distribution across the core is to have a centered inlet/outlet design, this ensures the majority of the core does the cooling as opposed to a very small area, like endtanks with inlets/outlets at the top or bottom.

Someone did a fluid analysis of both designs and the core with endtanks at the bottom only distributed air to the bottom 1/4th of the core. The centered inlet/outlet core had far better air distribution. While the center of the core received marginally more air, the top and bottom had equal amounts of airflow.

AFAccord

GO-Autoworks 28x8x3.5; because I trust Greg's products. Rated for 600hp, flow tested @ 711 CFM.

2.3L single cam with 10:1 compression, made 417whp, 398wtq @ 19psi on T3/T4 57 trim.

tepid1

Here is a couple examples of what I did....

Both involve using 2 Garrett A2W 1000hp cores.
1st design:


End tanks were big and only reinforced is a couple spots. At 38psi the end tanks were flexing and eventually gave away. Destroyed my radiator and fan in the process. Lesson learned.... keep the surface area small and triangulated for strength and flow.

2nd design:


Much stronger and still efficient. Takes over 40psi like a champ now. Braced and coated with an anti sweating material. Stays 100% dry even when its 100degF outside and ice is in the tank.

The biggest lesson I learned in efficiency of the A2W cores is water flow. The more the better. If you look in the pics you'll see that I have a dual outlet Meziere pump. At 12vdc it flows 55gpm. (think fire hose lol) I run the car at 16vdc to gain fuel pump efficiency and better fuel injector control, so the electric water pumps (2 on the car) also flow more than the 55gmp mentioned before.

In a nut shell, with my car, a S372R at 37psi dyno'd at 940whp and IAT's were less than 50degF. It doesn't matter what ambient temp is outside, the charge air is still consistently cold.

It's tough to see in the second picture, but I logged a lot of data from the second I/C setup....
Compressor outlet temp
IC outlet temp
IC Inlet water temp
IC outlet water temp

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Awesome how your game has stepped up in cooler charge design.. Kudos to you, my friend.

LightningTeg

The newer treadstone stuff is actually really nice quality. I have an older TR8 on my integra and I've never had an issue with IAT's.

Definitely a bang for your buck, but like was said, their cores are a bit larger to compensate for being less dense.

tepid1

And now I'm using an A2A intercooler. Go figure. lol

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

not that surprising. for your purposes, it makes sense

SiRCiviC94

im thinking my cooler is maxed would that cause any risks or just a powerloss when its hot or past efficiency?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

yes... we've discussed that before.. Your solution originally was that it didn't matter because you were under 300whp anyway. But that heat soak is a major problem for power loss, detonation, and other issues.

Please read page 3 + , so you can get an idea of how this works again, please.

peaceable

iTrader: (1)

Very Impressive! Definitely an eye opener to say the least. Can you recommend a good tech-function research source for people like me desiring to understand function principles and application comparisons a bit more?

tepid1

Yeah. Feel free to PM me with questions. I learned a lot the hard way, but also have many friends that do similar things. Nothing that you can really read. Trial and error.

Calesta

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...r-testing.aspx

Good technical bits about testing intercooler efficiency and making calculations on how to improve intake temps.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Tepid, whats around the inlet shroud of the turbo? Looks like 4 fittings with push locks.. what for

tepid1

I was monitoring pressure there. Tested a couple different things. Wanted to learn more about inlet pressure and inlet temperature and relate it to compressor outlet temp and compressor rpm along with referring to backpressure to determine efficiency. All in the name of figuring out what works best and what doesn't work at all.