Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!! - Page 15 - Honda-Tech


Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

Reply
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-26-2014, 07:08 PM   #351
Honda-Tech Member
 
eastbay92cx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ca
Posts: 673
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

eastbay92cx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2014, 08:14 PM   #352
Honda-Tech Member
 
tepid1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 8,387
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
That's fine. I'm not worried about the numeric data charts really. Cerakote is not a very common material in most powder coating facilities. Cerakote was one of the ones we did for some rifles and other aluminum materials. We didn't see an improvement in the efficiency of heat exchange rate of the intercooler (I have to admit we only tested the temperature of the air before exchange and at the throttle body.)

Now, Tepid1 may have had a much better way to apply the measurements of the temperature changes at the site of the intercooler, but Cerakote's main purpose is for aluminum protection from scratches or damage, not for additional heat exchange efficiency.

Cerakote is in the same boat of Duracoat, and Moly Resin when it comes to protection of aluminum, but doesn't really assist in heat-exchange efficiency. However, many firearms sources agree that for the best protection, HA-III (hard anodized type 3) is the best process to use. The HA-III electro-chemical process "transforms" the external surfaces of the Aluminum, resulting in a new surface that is very tough, very resistant to scratches, salt, and many other chemicals. It is "the" best process for Al, and companies such as SureFire and others that do military gear always use this process to protect the Aluminum pieces.

But because anodizing comes in better colors and is applied differently than powdercoat, it satisfies most people's needs for aluminum protection and a nicer aesthetic look. If you want better exchange efficiency, than really, the best thing to do to an intercooler is.... nothing. Leave it alone.

Guys. Remember, the purpose of the intercooler is to lower engine cylinder pressure temperatures by an exchange of heated air created by the compression of air (by increasing the kinectic energy of the air molecules turbocharger to cooler air that enters into the combustion chamber) for cooler air. Intercoolers do not "dissipate" heat, even by definition. To dissipate is "to disperse or scatter" something, even as anomalous as heat created by the turbocharger's compressor.

An intercooler's purpose is not to disperse or scatter anything, but to exchange its air, using forced airflow from the outside through its fins to lower the temperature of the compressed air so that the air entering into the engine's air intake system does not increase engine cylinder temperatures that are already higher from the increased engine compression and combustion when turbocharging.
EDIT: I'm retracting my detailed response. I don't use an IC the same way everyone else does therefore it won't make sense to the masses. I'm done.

There is more than one way to achieve lower IAT's. That's really the desired result.

Last edited by tepid1; 04-26-2014 at 11:07 PM.
tepid1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 02:28 AM   #353
Who is Mr Robot?
iTrader: (2)
 
wantboost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ATL - Where the Pimps and Players dwell
Posts: 21,475
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

Tepid, I understand what you are saying but then again I know what kind of intercooler setup you run and how you have it configured, along with the coatings you use in various places on different components

ps I'll be pm'ing you later today. I finally got the rough calculations done for my ubermotor and wanted to get your advice about my rod length and compression height along with some questions about your experience with aluminum rods since I'm going to be running a set. also a few questions on monitoring various engine parameters

<3
wantboost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 06:29 AM   #354
B*a*n*n*e*d
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: montebello, ca, us
Posts: 6,632
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tepid1 View Post
EDIT: I'm retracting my detailed response. I don't use an IC the same way everyone else does therefore it won't make sense to the masses. I'm done.

There is more than one way to achieve lower IAT's. That's really the desired result.
Fuuuuuck

I was relly hoping for you to respond...
turbohatch96y7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 02:54 PM   #355
Honda-Tech Member
 
tepid1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 8,387
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbohatch96y7 View Post
Fuuuuuck

I was relly hoping for you to respond...
The short and sweet is that an IC can be used as a heat sink instead of a heat exchanger. Just have to think about it a bit.
tepid1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 06:46 PM   #356
Who is Mr Robot?
iTrader: (2)
 
wantboost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ATL - Where the Pimps and Players dwell
Posts: 21,475
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

Yea to a degree the large surface area of the typical fmic acts as a heatsink. the size along with aluminums ability to transfer heat means that it will help to lower charge air temps in addition to the air flowing through the core.
wantboost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 07:33 PM   #357
Honda-Tech Member
 
Str8 outta Cliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: ON, Canada
Posts: 73
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

After I go for a drive, the cold side of my intercooler feels cooler than ambient temp.

I'm not sure why this is, there's nothing special about it just plain old aluminum. It must have something to do with the thermal conductivity of aluminum, so I'm guessing if a coating can increase this conductivity it could also increase this "chilling" effect?
Str8 outta Cliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 08:39 PM   #358
B*a*n*n*e*d
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: montebello, ca, us
Posts: 6,632
Default

I'm sure wind chill has nothing to do with ambient temp



turbohatch96y7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 08:46 PM   #359
Honda-Tech Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,215
Default

Wind chill only affects perceived temperatures. Denser materials feel cooler/hotter because theres more molecules exciting your nerves.

65 degree air temp feels nice, 65 degree water temp is bone chilling.

Same goes for the opposite direction

Windchill occurs because wind causes more air molecules to hit your skin.

Last edited by m4xwellmurd3r; 04-28-2014 at 11:15 PM.
m4xwellmurd3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2014, 11:12 PM   #360
Honda-Tech Member
 
tepid1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: CT
Posts: 8,387
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbohatch96y7 View Post
I'm sure wind chill has nothing to do with ambient temp



Not sure if you're joking here or not, but it has everything to do with ambient temp.

Wind chill really only changes the rate and which something will cool, but it will NEVER go below said ambient temp.

A solid or liquid always "feels" cooler than it actually is. Like m4xwellmurd3r said, it's all about perception.
tepid1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 07:38 AM   #361
B*a*n*n*e*d
iTrader: (15)
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: montebello, ca, us
Posts: 6,632
Default

No, I was joking.
turbohatch96y7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 07:48 AM   #362
Honda-Tech Member
 
SovXietday's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lower Right Hand Corner, PA
Posts: 5,644
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Str8 outta Cliff View Post
After I go for a drive, the cold side of my intercooler feels cooler than ambient temp.

I'm not sure why this is, there's nothing special about it just plain old aluminum. It must have something to do with the thermal conductivity of aluminum, so I'm guessing if a coating can increase this conductivity it could also increase this "chilling" effect?
You pretty much got it, everyone else keeps kinda dancing around the science around it but it's all about the thermal conductivity.

Thermal conductivity of air is very low, in fact in some instances it's used as an insulator (think some double pane windows).

However, aluminum's thermal conductivity is very high. What happens is that when you touch it, the heat from your fingers is transferred into the aluminum at a much faster rate.Your body senses the temperature of your skin, not of the aluminum, so when the heat from your body is being pulled away locally at a very high rate, it seems very cold.

That said, as has been stated, you will never be able to achieve lower than ambient temperatures. In fact, in all honesty, getting your outlet intake charge to be within 10 degrees of ambient is incredibly unlikely. Air to air heat transfer is driven mostly* by the temperature difference between the two mediums (otherwise known as Log Mean Temperature Difference). So as you get close to ambient temps your heat transfer starts to go away and you just won't be able to change the temperature very easily.

Water to air is a little different though.

*flow rates play a role in it too, but with the speed of a car always changing it's difficult to really put that into perspective.
SovXietday is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 07:51 AM   #363
Moderator
Thread Starter
iTrader: (12)
 
TheShodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: City of Wind, IL, USA
Posts: 20,611
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SovXietday View Post
You pretty much got it, everyone else keeps kinda dancing around the science around it but it's all about the thermal conductivity.

Thermal conductivity of air is very low, in fact in some instances it's used as an insulator (think some double pane windows).

However, aluminum's thermal conductivity is very high. What happens is that when you touch it, the heat from your fingers is transferred into the aluminum at a much faster rate.Your body senses the temperature of your skin, not of the aluminum, so when the heat from your body is being pulled away locally at a very high rate, it seems very cold.

That said, as has been stated, you will never be able to achieve lower than ambient temperatures. In fact, in all honesty, getting your outlet intake charge to be within 10 degrees of ambient is incredibly unlikely. Air to air heat transfer is driven mostly* by the temperature difference between the two mediums (otherwise known as Log Mean Temperature Difference). So as you get close to ambient temps your heat transfer starts to go away and you just won't be able to change the temperature very easily.

Water to air is a little different though.

*flow rates play a role in it too, but with the speed of a car always changing it's difficult to really put that into perspective.
I agree, to an extent as water-to-air being that different. I had one setup for the street 10 years ago, and we saw little difference. For Drag racing, however, I'd agree with you there.
TheShodan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 03:11 PM   #364
Who is Mr Robot?
iTrader: (2)
 
wantboost's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ATL - Where the Pimps and Players dwell
Posts: 21,475
Default Re: Discussion Topic: Let's talk Intercoolers!!

I've seen people use ac systems to cool an air to water style core.

the small core is about equal to the size of the OEM ac core in the interior so it has no trouble maintaining constant cool temperatures, well below ambient. plus they have it setup where the compressor only activates under boost.

I might use an electric motor to run a small ac compressor and see how well it works... imagine IATs well under ambient all the time.
wantboost is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FAQ: Road Racing/Autocross Forum Stinkycheezmonky Road Racing / Autocross & Time Attack 13 08-13-2016 11:53 AM
OH FS: 1997 HONDA PRELUDE 5MT BASE *ALL STOCK* VashTheStampede Mid-West (Sales) 0 06-15-2016 02:12 PM
OH FS:1997 Honda Prelude 5MT Base *ALL STOCK* VashTheStampede Vehicles for sale 0 06-15-2016 02:07 PM
I'm just sayin'.....there's a reason Skunk's been around since 1994 TheShodan All Motor / Naturally Aspirated 63 02-04-2012 02:02 AM
Distributor Nightmares and Idle Insanity! Expert advice needed, :) FREE PRIZE for whoever solves my Sketch_hs Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) 10 10-22-2004 09:57 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:46 AM.


 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
What's your question?
Send