So have any of you used both the cans an an electronic listening device? I find the ignition whine is a little distracting on an engine ear. It seems a bit less with a knock sensor but it would be pretty cool to not have it at all.

Maybe I'll build a set of these and tune my recent viper project with them instead of the engine ear...its on race gas and has modified combustion chambers so im not sure where I can go with the timing since I usually tune stock ones.

 

Yea man give it a try and let us know which you like better

 

I think I will. The more I think about it the more I like the Can idea. I'll try my chassis ear back to back with the cans. Im just not sure where I can bolt the cans to. There are some nice spots to clamp the chassis ear to, right at the top of the cylinders, but no bolts.

 

Yea thats the problem . I've been having trouble finding a good place to bolt this on the b series blocks. You can bolt it near the #1 cylinder if they dont have power steering, but thats about all I see thats easily accessable.

 

I think im going to weld a 6" piece of pipe to a small pair of vicegrips so I can clamp it onto the same exact spot as the chassis ear. I'll probably weld the pipe right to the upper jaw on the vice grips so its as direct as possible.

I probably wont use any fitting though, just slide some air hose over it and use hose clamps

 

Good idea.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by See Are X &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...I went from this...


...to this...


...im probably going to need to retard it even more from 7500rpm up, I still hear a little detonation there.
Modified by See Are X at 3:17 AM 3/17/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>

Are you sure you have detionations?
i drive my stock b16a1 10.2:1 CR with 8psi and have 21,96° after 7krpm and have no problems at all...

 

I basically had to do a similar thing with my sohc timing maps. I tuned another sohc with the det cans though that wanted a more normal amount of timing so i think my car just sucks

 

This is good ****. Im going to try it out on my b16, maybe this weekend.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are you sure you have detionations?
i drive my stock b16a1 10.2:1 CR with 8psi and have 21,96° after 7krpm and have no problems at all...</TD></TR></TABLE>

you should make one of these det cans, you'd probably be surprised. Unless the, rice falling on foil, sound i'm hearing is normal then I might be wrong. But I was able to eliminate that sound by taking out timing, so I dont know what else it could be.

The only way I can think of that will kind of tell us if this thing works right, is to test the det can on a engine with the timing properly tuned on a dyno. And see what kind of sounds the det can picks up.

 

Looks like I'll be hitting Home Depot today.....

 

Yea our problem is strange. I've been trying to figure out the cause of it. One thing I thought of is maybe my ecu is running more timing due to my iat sensor being in the intake pipe and reading much lower than normal iat's. I would think it would actually run less timing though. Also I am running a y8 obd2 dizzy on my z6 head. Even though the timing and everything seems synced up I dont know what it is doing under load.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by See Are X &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you should make one of these det cans, you'd probably be surprised. Unless the, rice falling on foil, sound i'm hearing is normal then I might be wrong. But I was able to eliminate that sound by taking out timing, so I dont know what else it could be.

The only way I can think of that will kind of tell us if this thing works right, is to test the det can on a engine with the timing properly tuned on a dyno. And see what kind of sounds the det can picks up.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why not pull the plugs when you get this sound and double check?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Are you sure you have detionations?
i drive my stock b16a1 10.2:1 CR with 8psi and have 21,96° after 7krpm and have no problems at all...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I cracked my #3 ringland running that much timing on 94 octane on 7psi... for sure I had detonation with a similar setup

I actually made MORE power at 18 degrees total... on the new bottom end of course

 

Hallo Raene,

interesting... maybe i should check that... :-) but last time i checked the plugs during tuning session i don't have any detionations

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cobra2326 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why not pull the plugs when you get this sound and double check? </TD></TR></TABLE>

I have checked my plugs. Even with the timing map ive been using(before I made the det can)I did not see any signs of detonation. I heard it, but did not see anything on the plugs.

 

I have found it hard to distinguish between what is and what isnt detonation on the plugs. I think to really see slight detonation on the plugs you need to look very closely...maybe even use a magnifier.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have found it hard to distinguish between what is and what isnt detonation on the plugs. I think to really see slight detonation on the plugs you need to look very closely...maybe even use a magnifier. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, thats true... especialy to see the difference between carbon desposits and knock is not very easy in my eyes...

but when listening with the det can, how do you know the noise is knock... a Vtec engine like the b16 or b18 makes a lot of noise from the valvetrain especialy when in vtec...

i don't have a exact feeling but when you get knock by ~20° on a 10:1 CR engine, the tuning width is very very small to make MBTT, i would say without racefuel its impossible to reach MBTT with such an engine. or what do you guys think?

i will try to lower my 20° to 16,9° (maximum timing @ around +7k) and see if the noises of my engine will change.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have found it hard to distinguish between what is and what isnt detonation on the plugs. I think to really see slight detonation on the plugs you need to look very closely...maybe even use a magnifier. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If you are not using a 10x magnifying glass you are not reading the plugs.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yes, thats true... especialy to see the difference between carbon desposits and knock is not very easy in my eyes...

but when listening with the det can, how do you know the noise is knock... a Vtec engine like the b16 or b18 makes a lot of noise from the valvetrain especialy when in vtec...

i don't have a exact feeling but when you get knock by ~20° on a 10:1 CR engine, the tuning width is very very small to make MBTT, i would say without racefuel its impossible to reach MBTT with such an engine. or what do you guys think?

i will try to lower my 20° to 16,9° (maximum timing @ around +7k) and see if the noises of my engine will change.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have heard audible detonation before and this sounds the exact same. I would say the same thing as you that this could possibly just be valvetrain noise, but if it goes away with pulling out timing then you know it is more than likely knock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOHC_MShue &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have heard audible detonation before and this sounds the exact same. I would say the same thing as you that this could possibly just be valvetrain noise, but if it goes away with pulling out timing then you know it is more than likely knock. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, then you are right... if it goes away with changing timing then it is def. no valvetrain noise... :-)

i have burned a chip and when driving to work tomorrow i will check it if something changes and then report

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


i don't have a exact feeling but when you get knock by ~20° on a 10:1 CR engine, the tuning width is very very small to make MBTT, i would say without racefuel its impossible to reach MBTT with such an engine. or what do you guys think?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've reached MBT on 10:1 engine on 93 octane, but this was with pulling the plugs at a number of points on the way to 8k, so now I wonder if there has been some minor knocking not showing on the plugs

Although I typically only see about ~17-18* of advance on B18C's @ 9-10psi, ~16* on B16's while making within a few ft-lbs of best torque anyways. *shrug*

 

Heres my low cam map on my JDM b16. I had to pull a lot of timing right when peak boost hits in order for my plugs to NOT show knock.

 

matt, lets boost this d15

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMs1eeper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">matt, lets boost this d15 </TD></TR></TABLE>
I think you need to build another 10 second car and quite beating around the bush.