<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bseriescivic5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe i didnt not post clearly, its NON TURBO....trying to get it broken in NA b4 i slap the snail on, tuning is not required when its in stock form.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you are saying that this is a 'near' stock B16 and throwing a P28 ECU should be right?

Hrm...so a 1.6L SOHC VTEC Computer should run a DOHC 1.6L?

I love it when people do this...

"Uh, I have a CEL..." "Well...what is the code?" "Uh, duh...I just told you its a CEL"



This is almost as good as the thread with the guy that claimed his car started with no ECU in the car

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
This is almost as good as the thread with the guy that claimed his car started with no ECU in the car </TD></TR></TABLE>

Handcrank?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So you are saying that this is a 'near' stock B16 and throwing a P28 ECU should be right?

Hrm...so a 1.6L SOHC VTEC Computer should run a DOHC 1.6L?

I love it when people do this...

"Uh, I have a CEL..." "Well...what is the code?" "Uh, duh...I just told you its a CEL"



This is almost as good as the thread with the guy that claimed his car started with no ECU in the car </TD></TR></TABLE>

this has gotten lost.
i got my b16 through inspection on a dx ecu it will work.
lets get back to the issue at hand.

eg - internaled b16 - stock p&h obd0 injectors - resistor box - p28 - stock map sensor.
car was stolen and ran fine with this setup. it was being broken in and was lifted from gregs driveway.
car doesnt idle. starts runs dies.

for ***** and giggles, greg grabbed dans race cars neptuned ecu setup for 1000's with a gm 3 bar and the car runs and idles. not great but alot better than before.

 

Your definately kidding dude right? ur an idiot, a socketted p28 running a STOCK B16A MAP. Many of us here have this kind of a setup.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bseriescivic5 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Your definately kidding dude right? ur an idiot, a socketted p28 running a STOCK B16A MAP. Many of us here have this kind of a setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

you never said it was a socketed p28 running a b16 map. you said it was a STOCK P28 so he has a valid point.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SovXietday &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">First of all, the fuel units in all of these tuning programs are just that, values. It's probably running a little lean, since the value set for 1000cc injectors would be set lower than for 240cc injectors. Really the fuel maps at idle only vary slightly.

3 bar map reads vac just the same as a stock map, wouldn't be an issue till over 12psi when **** starts getting mad.</TD></TR></TABLE>

the difference between a map for 1000's and 240 is still very large even at idle. and sorry, a 3 bar has MUCH different values than a stock map sensor in vacuum as well as in boost.

 

my car actually started with a stock ecu and a 3.5 bar map sensor....couldn't rev it at all, but it started......

I would suggest checking to make sure all your sensors are plugged in with the correct connectors. I don't think it's timing because it wouldn't start and die like it's doing. I usually associate start and die with map sensor problems or Idle air problems. Can you keep the car running with the stock ecu trying to rev it up?

 

i'm not really all that great with computers and tuning but wouldn't the 1000cc injectors on the "stock" ecu not even be able to run due to the difference in resistance values of the injectors???
are you running an injector driver or resistor pack???
and wouldn't the flow of the stock injectors at max duty cycle still be outperformed at the same rpm with the 1000cc injectors at 25% duty cycle due to higher flow capability???
i mean even at idle wouldn't the 1000ccs at 25%DC still be dumping more fuel than a stock 240cc at 100%DC??


Modified by jz98ctr at 1:30 AM 1/5/2007

 

my car started and ran with 440 CC injectors and a 3 bar. when i was a newbie didnt chip j1 right.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ndogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you never said it was a socketed p28 running a b16 map. you said it was a STOCK P28 so he has a valid point.</TD></TR></TABLE>

doesnt matter you can run a 1.5 sohc dx ecu on a GSR no problems at all. trying to rip on this dude when all you dumb ***** are the real noobs.

 

Why is this even in forced induction, Someone Lock this DEE DEE DEE Thread

 

why lock it? he is looking for help and there is some good information/people on this forum that could help.

 

If the car wont run on a stock ecu and stock injectors, That to me seems to be the problem whats forced induction about it?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoolingb20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">QUOTE=Speed Infliction]you need to stop screwing around with different computers and wondering why, and just get it tuned before you screw something up. don't drive it and take it to the dyno.

Please dont answer with he needs to go take and get it tuned. If you read the post this is fairly close to a stock b16. Last time a checked it doesnt take dyno tuning to work out kinks in an all motor b16. Even if he has changed the compression of the motor, he can still adjust his timing to make it run safly and effectively.
Does the Neptune chipped ECU have timing adjustments programmed in?
Are you running the stock Map sensor for now or do you still have the stock civic one plugged in?

Also to all these replys with need to get car tuned please inform what in the hell they are going to tune his stock b16 with a stock ecu in the car. Alls there is to adjust is fuel press. Dizzy timing and spark gap. This can all be done in a driveway not a dyno. .</TD></TR></TABLE>
[/QUOTE]

dude shut the hell up. obviously he has to get some type of tuning program. the best thing to do is to tune it first. what else can be more important. by the way...i was not the only person that said it either....hint hint.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OBRJosh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why is this even in forced induction, Someone Lock this DEE DEE DEE Thread</TD></TR></TABLE>

because in the 92-00 forum, they dont get nito why there is a difference in the stock map and the 3 bar.

 

ALRIGHT guys, we can all calm down

we appreciate all the help, the main part of the question was why the hell can a basic stock setup, be run by a 1000cc neptune 3 bar setup (this was my question, moreso then how to fix the car not running)

Car now is up and running perfect
things we did, in no logical order
put more fuel in (fuel gauge was inop, so wasnt taking any chances)
put new plugs in it (keep in my this motor was just put back together again, and put in car, was just recently stolen, rings were seated but new bearings were just put in.) double checked valve adjustment, just in case
checked over all connections, and made sure he plugs in all the plugs in the right location (vtec soleniod wire was not hooked up yet in this process)
put ls ecu back in (completely stock ecu, that i know works perfect) (im guessing his p28 w/stock program in it (which ran car before stolen) might have a problem with it).
ALL these things done, and tried to start agian and bam, starts up and runs great, idle air control valve needed to be changed out for a new one (which is once again amazing it workd fine before car was stolen back in NOV) But put a new one on, car starts,runs,idles, test drove great
just glad to have this damn car back on road, he only has a few days of driving it, then back to college

THanks for all the help guys
Dan

 

i think idle air control valve could have been the MAIN problem, and in the race car setup its probably turned off (my guess)

take care everyone

d

 

"dude shut the hell up. obviously he has to get some type of tuning program. the best thing to do is to tune it first. what else can be more important. by the way...i was not the only person that said it either....hint hint"

typical hondatech poster something you dont find in some of the other car forums is the mods putting up with people giving out bullshit help and information.
If you have nothing of help to offer why do you even post anything? I sure wish everytime someone had problem with a stock b16 or stock car I could just tell them to go get it tuned at a local dyno. The point here is if you cant help just keep your mouth shut.
If you still want to suggest that he needs tuning and that you were not the only one to say, alls this states is that you just jumped on the band wagon and didnt have any clue about how to help his situation in the first place. If you dont know keep your mouth shut, in a situation that you would need help you wouldnt want a bunch of idiots reply with a bunch of BS to get you on the wrong track of fixing your probelm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ndogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the difference between a map for 1000's and 240 is still very large even at idle. and sorry, a 3 bar has MUCH different values than a stock map sensor in vacuum as well as in boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Teh blah... I completely forgot that the ECU reads voltage on the map sensor.

I just plugged it into crome for ***** and giggles, the fuel values fell about 10 points in where the car would idle from. For 450cc injectors I had to richen up a bit after crome did it's fuel multiplication to get it to idle.

Idling on 240s with a 1000cc map, I can see, doing anything else probably would have shut the car off though.

 

car is back on road, still has a few small issues, slight oil leak, and i think my front calipers are shot, but motor itself is running strong, thanks for the help guys.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spoolingb20 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
"dude shut the hell up. obviously he has to get some type of tuning program. the best thing to do is to tune it first. what else can be more important. by the way...i was not the only person that said it either....hint hint"

typical hondatech poster something you dont find in some of the other car forums is the mods putting up with people giving out bullshit help and information.
If you have nothing of help to offer why do you even post anything? I sure wish everytime someone had problem with a stock b16 or stock car I could just tell them to go get it tuned at a local dyno. The point here is if you cant help just keep your mouth shut.
If you still want to suggest that he needs tuning and that you were not the only one to say, alls this states is that you just jumped on the band wagon and didnt have any clue about how to help his situation in the first place. If you dont know keep your mouth shut, in a situation that you would need help you wouldnt want a bunch of idiots reply with a bunch of BS to get you on the wrong track of fixing your probelm.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

then why did you post? like i said STFU.

 

Car is fixed guys, running strong, boost is on the way......shootin for 450whp

 

I hope this doesn't encourage others to try this. The reason it worked is probably because it was a totally stock ecu expecting voltage from a 1.75bar sensor, and the 3bar essentially gave it ( .75/2 .375 the voltage the 1.75bar would have been sending. In other words, the ecu saw the maybe 18 in/Hg from the high idle as 26 in/Hg (or more, given the 3bar's crappy vacuum readings), meaning it was giving it 3/8ths the duty cycle. 1000cc * .375 = 375, so it was like running 375cc's in there.

Long story short, the ecu thought it was under extreme vacuum (higher than high-rpm zero-throttle decel) due to the reduced MAP voltage, and was telling the injectors to squirt accordingly. That amounted to just enough fuel to make it run.

 

Thank you very much for actually reading the question and Actually Answering my question

Was just really weird to me, but figured it was just enough to equal out to get it to run, thanks again

Dan

 

great info