closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for your
12-13-2007, 04:27 PM
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closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for your
Hey guys, as some of you know i'm a noob here, but i've been trying to think of ways to run a cleaner closed catch can system with legit vacuum sources... and i needed some advice from some experienced techs to verify my logic. 
i think i've come up with yet another way to provide PCV during boost pressure (i'm gunna be using this for my set up in 2 months if this looks like it will work, if it's not unique, don't flame please... it would be nice to know that i found a set up that i think would work for me
)!:
SOAK IT ALL IN...
Under normal operation, the intake manifold provides vacuum pressure to alleviate the build up of crankcase gasses via the PCV system right?. As shown in the illustration below, the oil catch can system retains a large amount of sludge that would otherwise contaminate the induction tract beginning with the intake manifold. However, on normal closed catch can systems, while under boost (a high pressure), vacuum (a low pressure) in the intake manifold is lost; pressurizing the crankcase ventilation system again because it has no vacuum source (power loss right?).
Suction created by the downward motion of the pistons is vacuum pressure (duh), so it's a good source for your catch can system when your not in boost right? BUT from other threads ( https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1199935 ), i found out that during boost the intake manifold loses it's vacuum properties.... so where does this blow-by go? no where right? We need a constant vacuum source under boost now. I used the compressor side of the turbo for this.
This illustration shows what happens to blow-by gases when the intake manifold's PSI increases beyond vacuum pressure PROVIDED THAT:
1. THE INTAKE MANIFOLD IS A STRONGER VACUUM SOURCE THAN THE COMPRESSOR INLET PIPE BEFORE SIGNIFICANT BOOST PRESSURE.
2. THE COMPRESSOR INLET PIPE IS A STRONGER VACUUM SOURCE THAN THE INTAKE MANIFOLD DURING SIGNIFICANT BOOST PRESSURES.
I thought of this set up because it seemed like it was the best way to limit sludge build up in the intake manifold and the compressor, piping, intercooler, and throttle body WHILE keeping PCV . I hope this is legit and raises questions, but i won't be able to test it until this summer when the motor is built and i have all my turbo parts, and most of all i hope it works lol. Sorry for the small lines, some are striped to show pressures with and without boost. Let me know what you think of the set up. If any of my mechanical laws are conflicting let me know, i'll go back to the drawing board .
Modified by SteamedRice at 5:50 PM 12/13/2007
i think i've come up with yet another way to provide PCV during boost pressure (i'm gunna be using this for my set up in 2 months if this looks like it will work, if it's not unique, don't flame please... it would be nice to know that i found a set up that i think would work for me
)!:SOAK IT ALL IN...
Under normal operation, the intake manifold provides vacuum pressure to alleviate the build up of crankcase gasses via the PCV system right?. As shown in the illustration below, the oil catch can system retains a large amount of sludge that would otherwise contaminate the induction tract beginning with the intake manifold. However, on normal closed catch can systems, while under boost (a high pressure), vacuum (a low pressure) in the intake manifold is lost; pressurizing the crankcase ventilation system again because it has no vacuum source (power loss right?).
Suction created by the downward motion of the pistons is vacuum pressure (duh), so it's a good source for your catch can system when your not in boost right? BUT from other threads ( https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1199935 ), i found out that during boost the intake manifold loses it's vacuum properties.... so where does this blow-by go? no where right? We need a constant vacuum source under boost now. I used the compressor side of the turbo for this.
This illustration shows what happens to blow-by gases when the intake manifold's PSI increases beyond vacuum pressure PROVIDED THAT:
1. THE INTAKE MANIFOLD IS A STRONGER VACUUM SOURCE THAN THE COMPRESSOR INLET PIPE BEFORE SIGNIFICANT BOOST PRESSURE.
2. THE COMPRESSOR INLET PIPE IS A STRONGER VACUUM SOURCE THAN THE INTAKE MANIFOLD DURING SIGNIFICANT BOOST PRESSURES.
I thought of this set up because it seemed like it was the best way to limit sludge build up in the intake manifold and the compressor, piping, intercooler, and throttle body WHILE keeping PCV
. I hope this is legit and raises questions, but i won't be able to test it until this summer when the motor is built and i have all my turbo parts, and most of all i hope it works lol. Sorry for the small lines, some are striped to show pressures with and without boost. Let me know what you think of the set up. If any of my mechanical laws are conflicting let me know, i'll go back to the drawing board .Modified by SteamedRice at 5:50 PM 12/13/2007
12-13-2007, 04:49 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
Looks like your motor there bent a rod... 
This is somewhat similar to the exhaust evacuation PCV method.
This is somewhat similar to the exhaust evacuation PCV method.
12-13-2007, 04:50 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
but it wont foul your O2 sensor.... do you think it works?
12-13-2007, 04:51 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
[QUOTE=slowteg90]Looks like your motor there bent a rod... [QUOTE]
so my paint skills aren't great, that's not the point here! lol
EDIT... jeez lol
so my paint skills aren't great, that's not the point here! lol
EDIT... jeez lol
12-13-2007, 04:52 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
EDIT: bouble post... oops..
But no i dont think that will work. You really dont need vacuum to go to the catchcan. The excess "blowby" gasses will still vent to the catch can in boost w/o a vacuum source..
Im guessing your trying to make a pcv system that utilizes the stock pcv system also?
Im kinda confused...
But no i dont think that will work. You really dont need vacuum to go to the catchcan. The excess "blowby" gasses will still vent to the catch can in boost w/o a vacuum source..
Im guessing your trying to make a pcv system that utilizes the stock pcv system also?
Im kinda confused...
12-13-2007, 04:56 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
In your diagram above i spy a vacuum leak.
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12-13-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
where is it.. the T?
12-13-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
Yes. Without some kind of check valve in your system, you will leak boost into your catchcan.
12-13-2007, 04:58 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
where is it.. the T?
what does a check valve do ..... would i need something to keep the top part of the T closed until boost?
what does a check valve do
..... would i need something to keep the top part of the T closed until boost?
12-13-2007, 04:59 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
first, vacuum is created when the throtle palte is shut, and when the throttle is open, with engine load, u get no vacuum.
also, if u pull vacuum from the turbo inlet, then all the exhaust gasses would go into and through the turbo/engine.
also, if u pull vacuum from the turbo inlet, then all the exhaust gasses would go into and through the turbo/engine.
12-13-2007, 05:01 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SteamedRice »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where is it.. the T?</TD></TR></TABLE>
When you enter boost, you will need a check valve on your vac line going from the valve cover to the T to prevent boost from entering the catchcan.
A check valve allows air to flow one way. Like the check valve on your vac line running from teh VC to the brake booster
When you enter boost, you will need a check valve on your vac line going from the valve cover to the T to prevent boost from entering the catchcan.
A check valve allows air to flow one way. Like the check valve on your vac line running from teh VC to the brake booster
12-13-2007, 05:04 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
Why is Honda-Tech so enthralled by freaking catch cans? This has been covered a million times and people have been trying various catch can setups for the last 100+ years (literally). We know what works, stop trying to reinvent the wheel!
12-13-2007, 05:05 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
uggg, i thought i had it figured out, anyone wanna try and edit my diagram? lol
12-13-2007, 05:07 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
meh,... flood
12-13-2007, 08:50 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
How I have mine routed:
Rear box to PCV: PCV to T
Valvecover to 2nd hookup on the T
The out from the T goes to the catch can, and the other side of the catch can gets routed to a nipple on the intake side of the turbo.
It _could_ be better, I just need to add an air pump on the catch can side to assist in fume ventilation (constant on) to give the vaccum at all times. Im gonna use a "secondary air injection" pump from a VW.
Rear box to PCV: PCV to T
Valvecover to 2nd hookup on the T
The out from the T goes to the catch can, and the other side of the catch can gets routed to a nipple on the intake side of the turbo.
It _could_ be better, I just need to add an air pump on the catch can side to assist in fume ventilation (constant on) to give the vaccum at all times. Im gonna use a "secondary air injection" pump from a VW.
12-13-2007, 11:01 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nfn15037 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why is Honda-Tech so enthralled by freaking catch cans? This has been covered a million times and people have been trying various catch can setups for the last 100+ years (literally). We know what works, stop trying to reinvent the wheel!</TD></TR></TABLE>
totally agree!! Thank You.
totally agree!! Thank You.
12-14-2007, 05:42 AM
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so we have a system that works dosent mean other people should stop trying to figure out new ways to improve on stuff if we all had that attitude the performance world would be in trouble after they made the log they should have just called it quits instead of making ramhorns and topmounts right ?
12-14-2007, 07:35 AM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nfn15037 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Why is Honda-Tech so enthralled by freaking catch cans? This has been covered a million times and people have been trying various catch can setups for the last 100+ years (literally). We know what works, stop trying to reinvent the wheel!</TD></TR></TABLE>
yeah really......
no tim e to read everything just looking at pic:
plus if you have boost goin into the can along with crank case pressure, you will theoretically overcome the crank case pressure with boost and put boost pressure in the crank case?
yeah really......
no tim e to read everything just looking at pic:
plus if you have boost goin into the can along with crank case pressure, you will theoretically overcome the crank case pressure with boost and put boost pressure in the crank case?
12-14-2007, 06:38 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
if it's a big deal i will bring it to another site next time, i'd just rather think for myself sometimes, just thought i would get some help with it... i'm not a huge fan of conformity, but in theory, if people stopped pushing the envelope or thinking outside the box, everything would be run-of-the-mill and boring. i'm not gunna sit here and preach, but you get what i'm saying...
like i said i'm new here, so if i'm beating a dead horse forgive me
like i said i'm new here, so if i'm beating a dead horse forgive me
12-14-2007, 09:14 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowteg90 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Looks like your motor there bent a rod...
This is somewhat similar to the exhaust evacuation PCV method.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol, i think that rod is not strong enough for a boosted motor, being that skimpy lol
This is somewhat similar to the exhaust evacuation PCV method.</TD></TR></TABLE>
lol, i think that rod is not strong enough for a boosted motor, being that skimpy lol
12-18-2007, 03:08 PM
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Re: closed oil catch can idea *Steamed Rice* (if it works, it creates cleaner blow-by pressure for y
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SteamedRice »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">...if people stopped pushing the envelope or thinking outside the box, everything would be run-of-the-mill and boring. i'm not gunna sit here and preach, but you get what i'm saying...
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I get what you are saying, but you aren't being innovative or pushing the envelope. You are needlessly complicating a very simple system that really only works one of two ways - by either venting pressure to atmosphere or recycling it back into the inlet tract. It looks as if you are just connecting all of the components in different ways without really understanding basic physics or even having a good grasp on intuitive physics. I'm not trying to be rude, but there are a lot of people here who see a thread like this and think that it's gospel, when it is simply conjecture and trying to be different for the sake of being different. Great innovators don't innovate simply by deviating from the norm, they innovate by using science, data, and approaching problems logically. Try some testing on your system if you want some real information on how it performs. Who cares what myself or anyone here thinks? If it is a valid idea, then testing will reveal this and you can come tell us how stupid we all are.
I applaud your creative thinking, and hope that you don't ever stop. Always be on the lookout for great new ideas, but be prepared for the vast majority of them to not work. Don't be upset or defensive when someone points out the short comings of a design, it happens to me all the time! Accepting criticism and knowing when to move on to greener pastures is the greatest gift any inventor can have.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I get what you are saying, but you aren't being innovative or pushing the envelope. You are needlessly complicating a very simple system that really only works one of two ways - by either venting pressure to atmosphere or recycling it back into the inlet tract. It looks as if you are just connecting all of the components in different ways without really understanding basic physics or even having a good grasp on intuitive physics. I'm not trying to be rude, but there are a lot of people here who see a thread like this and think that it's gospel, when it is simply conjecture and trying to be different for the sake of being different. Great innovators don't innovate simply by deviating from the norm, they innovate by using science, data, and approaching problems logically. Try some testing on your system if you want some real information on how it performs. Who cares what myself or anyone here thinks? If it is a valid idea, then testing will reveal this and you can come tell us how stupid we all are.
I applaud your creative thinking, and hope that you don't ever stop. Always be on the lookout for great new ideas, but be prepared for the vast majority of them to not work. Don't be upset or defensive when someone points out the short comings of a design, it happens to me all the time! Accepting criticism and knowing when to move on to greener pastures is the greatest gift any inventor can have.
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