catch tank...
09-08-2003, 10:30 AM
#1
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catch tank...
is it really important to have one on a turbo Honda ? I just install my B&M oil cooler now Im ready to get my catch tank...
I think you just have to put a hose on the valves cover breather and one over the PCV valve ????
Oh yeah and if someone could tell me what it really does ... im not sure if it is necassary ???
Thank !!!
( oh yeah my engine is a D16Z6, 15 PSI, 260 WHP )
I think you just have to put a hose on the valves cover breather and one over the PCV valve ????
Oh yeah and if someone could tell me what it really does ... im not sure if it is necassary ???
Thank !!!
( oh yeah my engine is a D16Z6, 15 PSI, 260 WHP )
09-09-2003, 06:09 AM
#5
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Re: (yellowturbo)
you'll want to do a search on this one....there are several threads that are pages long each. try searching under "catch can" instead of tank, that should help.
09-09-2003, 08:22 PM
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Re: (yellowturbo)
Because you are FI your plumbing will be a little different. Because the turbo pressurizes the intake track the PCV valve will close when under boost. If the PCV valve is closed the PCV system will be closed when you need it the most. To avoid this you will need to tap the intake system pre-turbo, where vacuum is alsways available.
The following instructions are assuming you are using the Moroso catch can:
You'll need a hose coming from the pre-turbo intake pipe to the valve cover nipple. You should use a fitting inside the intake pipe with a 90* bend in it so that the inlet of the fitting is facing into the direction of the incoming air.
Remove the PCV valve from the stock location and insert a fitting into the hole connected the fitting to another hose. This hose will go to the side of the catch can.
Insert the PCV valve into the top of the catch can. Run a hose from the PCV valve to the pre-turbo intake pipe. Another fitting should be used inside the intake pipe with a 90* in it so that the fitting out let is facing the compressor (opposite direction from the other fitting).
Diagram: Forced Induction Application
Diagram: Naturaly Aspirated
Just remembered I have pics of my setup:
Modified by Haberdasher at 5:52 AM 9/10/2003
The following instructions are assuming you are using the Moroso catch can:
You'll need a hose coming from the pre-turbo intake pipe to the valve cover nipple. You should use a fitting inside the intake pipe with a 90* bend in it so that the inlet of the fitting is facing into the direction of the incoming air.
Remove the PCV valve from the stock location and insert a fitting into the hole connected the fitting to another hose. This hose will go to the side of the catch can.
Insert the PCV valve into the top of the catch can. Run a hose from the PCV valve to the pre-turbo intake pipe. Another fitting should be used inside the intake pipe with a 90* in it so that the fitting out let is facing the compressor (opposite direction from the other fitting).
Diagram: Forced Induction Application
Diagram: Naturaly Aspirated
Just remembered I have pics of my setup:
Modified by Haberdasher at 5:52 AM 9/10/2003
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09-09-2003, 08:56 PM
#9
Re: (BoostingSnail)
blue line is wrong!!!!! intake pipe b4 turbo causes vacuum, that means anything connected to it is sucked in, thus blue arrows should be moving into the turbo not out....
so if you want to filter oil away from the valve cover in that diagram, you should tee the catch can and valve cover and direct both to the catch can. and the other inlet for the catch can goes to to the nipple b4 the turbo (vacuum source)
so if you want to filter oil away from the valve cover in that diagram, you should tee the catch can and valve cover and direct both to the catch can. and the other inlet for the catch can goes to to the nipple b4 the turbo (vacuum source)
09-09-2003, 09:07 PM
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Re: (RoyFokker)
The fitting with the blue lines is directed into the airflow so air will be forced into it (ram air effect). This combined with the other fitting be directed as it is will create a vacuum system running through the valve cover, down to the crankcase, and up through the stock oil breather tank, through the catch can, out through the PCV valve, and out through the hose facing the compressor.
I didn't understand what you meant by filtering oil away from he valve cover. And with all your "T"s it sounds like you're routing catch can outlet to catch can inlet, which also makes no sense.
I didn't understand what you meant by filtering oil away from he valve cover. And with all your "T"s it sounds like you're routing catch can outlet to catch can inlet, which also makes no sense.
09-10-2003, 03:18 PM
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Re: (Haberdasher)
I wouldn't rely on that unless your spooling 5lbs of boost AT ALL times. There's little to no vacuum when using it as a source. You will end up with excessive amount of crankcase pressure to begin with. If you wanna keep it closed loop do it Endyn way, 2 catch cans.
09-10-2003, 03:53 PM
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Re: (LsTurbo91)
I kinda did mine a different way. A off-road type setup; using the Endyn moroso catchcan.
I could not find a place to mount it using the drainback system so I mounted it to the frame rail and I used a small canister for the drainage. I doubt very little if any oil will even drain from the system, but I still installed a little canister to keep everything clean. The endyn setup has 2 nipples on the side of the canister. Each nipple has a hose which connects to the back of the block. I chose to just have 1 of the hoses go to the back of the block and then have the 2 outlets from the back of the block plumb into that 1 hose coming from the catchcan. I then used the 2nd nipple and plumbed the hose to my valve cover. I chose not to run the breather filter on the valve cover. Does that make any sense? I know pictures would be great, but I don't have any at this time. Even if I used the PCV and plumbed it on the charge pipe the catchcan setup would still be effective. People are making this way too complicated than it really is.
Vacumm or no Vacumm oil vapors are goin to make its way out of the catchcan.
Here are your options= It's simple!
1. Have it all over your engine and let oil vapors as well as maybe even oil coming out of the back of the engine or valve cover breather.
2. Use the stock system plumbed into the charge pipe and let unfiltered vapors go back into the system during idle and maybe even suffer unsufficient crankcase pressure release since the system is closed. Meaning the vapors can only really escape when the PCV is open during idle.
3. Or use a catchcan setup and have it provide enough crankcase pressure while still maintaining and using your stock PCV. Or you can not use the PCV and just go with a filter. In either case whatever you choose will be fine. PCV or no PCV. With a catchcan the vapors are filtered and can be vented either by vacumm or by filter or oil drainage.
Now when these oil vapors are being let out by your engine it's going to either go all over your engine or go to the path its being led to "which is catch can" Then the vapors will run through the baffled can and liquify and drain out and rest of the vapors either be sucked out while the PCV is open under idle or it will let itself out via the drain.
The argument really lies when you make the setup completely closed loop like the way one of the Endyn setup is. It drainbacks into the block and then it uses PCV which lets the vapors out. The argument is that the stock PCV is not open long enough or often enough to let crankcase pressure out. I think that using the PCV even on a boosted engine will be fine. The reason why the catchcan is baffled is to make those oil vapors recirclulate as oil and then the remaining vapors are then sucked out. People are making it seem that if the PCV is not open enough its going to cause soo much pressure that the car and engine is going to go BOOM. You seriously have more than just a PCV catchcan setup if that's the case. There are plenty of turbo cars running STOCK PCV systems just FINE. It works, even under boost. The only downfall is that the vapors are not being filtered and it's being sucked back into the engine or just causing a puddle inside the stock PCV box.
Alright call me stupid lol, but those are my thoughts on this. Maybe next week I will have time to post some pictures lol. I'm heading out, sorry if there are any typos!
I could not find a place to mount it using the drainback system so I mounted it to the frame rail and I used a small canister for the drainage. I doubt very little if any oil will even drain from the system, but I still installed a little canister to keep everything clean. The endyn setup has 2 nipples on the side of the canister. Each nipple has a hose which connects to the back of the block. I chose to just have 1 of the hoses go to the back of the block and then have the 2 outlets from the back of the block plumb into that 1 hose coming from the catchcan. I then used the 2nd nipple and plumbed the hose to my valve cover. I chose not to run the breather filter on the valve cover. Does that make any sense? I know pictures would be great, but I don't have any at this time. Even if I used the PCV and plumbed it on the charge pipe the catchcan setup would still be effective. People are making this way too complicated than it really is.
Vacumm or no Vacumm oil vapors are goin to make its way out of the catchcan.
Here are your options= It's simple!
1. Have it all over your engine and let oil vapors as well as maybe even oil coming out of the back of the engine or valve cover breather.
2. Use the stock system plumbed into the charge pipe and let unfiltered vapors go back into the system during idle and maybe even suffer unsufficient crankcase pressure release since the system is closed. Meaning the vapors can only really escape when the PCV is open during idle.
3. Or use a catchcan setup and have it provide enough crankcase pressure while still maintaining and using your stock PCV. Or you can not use the PCV and just go with a filter. In either case whatever you choose will be fine. PCV or no PCV. With a catchcan the vapors are filtered and can be vented either by vacumm or by filter or oil drainage.
Now when these oil vapors are being let out by your engine it's going to either go all over your engine or go to the path its being led to "which is catch can" Then the vapors will run through the baffled can and liquify and drain out and rest of the vapors either be sucked out while the PCV is open under idle or it will let itself out via the drain.
The argument really lies when you make the setup completely closed loop like the way one of the Endyn setup is. It drainbacks into the block and then it uses PCV which lets the vapors out. The argument is that the stock PCV is not open long enough or often enough to let crankcase pressure out. I think that using the PCV even on a boosted engine will be fine. The reason why the catchcan is baffled is to make those oil vapors recirclulate as oil and then the remaining vapors are then sucked out. People are making it seem that if the PCV is not open enough its going to cause soo much pressure that the car and engine is going to go BOOM. You seriously have more than just a PCV catchcan setup if that's the case. There are plenty of turbo cars running STOCK PCV systems just FINE. It works, even under boost. The only downfall is that the vapors are not being filtered and it's being sucked back into the engine or just causing a puddle inside the stock PCV box.
Alright call me stupid lol, but those are my thoughts on this. Maybe next week I will have time to post some pictures lol. I'm heading out, sorry if there are any typos!
09-14-2003, 10:32 AM
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Re: (BenMara)
i have a obx canister to use as my catch can,how would i do that,it has 3 nipples,2 on top and one on the bottom.i currently have the filter on my valve cover.
if i m reading averything correctly,then this is what i have to do?
put 2 fittings in inlet pipe BEFORE turbo.run one hose to the valve cover with nothing inline.
run the next hose to the pcv valve,then a small hose to the catch can,then another hose to the block canister.
what should i do about the drain,its just a nipple right now,should i plug it up?
if i m reading averything correctly,then this is what i have to do?
put 2 fittings in inlet pipe BEFORE turbo.run one hose to the valve cover with nothing inline.
run the next hose to the pcv valve,then a small hose to the catch can,then another hose to the block canister.
what should i do about the drain,its just a nipple right now,should i plug it up?
09-14-2003, 11:29 AM
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Re: (civictypenos)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civictypenos »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol,i just opened up my obx catch can,its completely empty,nothing in it at all,what do i put in it to baffle the oil,steel wool?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Steel Wool is what the majority of people seem to use. Just make sure to give it a good shake before you put it in, just in case there are some loose strands.
I personally am gonna be running my catch can differently.
Valve Cover nipple + PCV valve outlet ---> Catch Can ----> Inline Fuel Filter(Xtra insurance) -----> intake pipe on turbo. This way there is constant Vacuum.
Steel Wool is what the majority of people seem to use. Just make sure to give it a good shake before you put it in, just in case there are some loose strands.
I personally am gonna be running my catch can differently.
Valve Cover nipple + PCV valve outlet ---> Catch Can ----> Inline Fuel Filter(Xtra insurance) -----> intake pipe on turbo. This way there is constant Vacuum.
09-14-2003, 11:39 AM
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Re: (LiLOtaku)
by "intake pipe on turbo" do you mean pre-turbo?
Someone mentioned above venting the system to atmosphere, if you do that is seems to me that the system wouldn't work. By venting the PCV system you are opening the system, so there will no longer be any pressure displacement to keep the system running.
Someone mentioned above venting the system to atmosphere, if you do that is seems to me that the system wouldn't work. By venting the PCV system you are opening the system, so there will no longer be any pressure displacement to keep the system running.
09-14-2003, 11:39 AM
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Re: (LiLOtaku)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LiLOtaku »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Steel Wool is what the majority of people seem to use. Just make sure to give it a good shake before you put it in, just in case there are some loose strands.
I personally am gonna be running my catch can differently.
Valve Cover nipple + PCV valve outlet ---> Catch Can ----> Inline Fuel Filter(Xtra insurance) -----> intake pipe on turbo. This way there is constant Vacuum. </TD></TR></TABLE>
so your going to run 2 catch cans then?one for the valve cover and one on the block
Steel Wool is what the majority of people seem to use. Just make sure to give it a good shake before you put it in, just in case there are some loose strands.
I personally am gonna be running my catch can differently.
Valve Cover nipple + PCV valve outlet ---> Catch Can ----> Inline Fuel Filter(Xtra insurance) -----> intake pipe on turbo. This way there is constant Vacuum. </TD></TR></TABLE>
so your going to run 2 catch cans then?one for the valve cover and one on the block
09-14-2003, 11:46 AM
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Re: (civictypenos)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civictypenos »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so your going to run 2 catch cans then?one for the valve cover and one on the block</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm actually going to be Tee'ing both the lines into the catch can.
so your going to run 2 catch cans then?one for the valve cover and one on the block</TD></TR></TABLE>
I'm actually going to be Tee'ing both the lines into the catch can.
09-14-2003, 12:23 PM
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Re: (civictypenos)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civictypenos »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
according to this pic,there would be very little vacuum at idle correct?
but a throttle there would be vacuum?to suck the vapors from the block?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I honestly dont get how that blue line in that pics works. The direction of flow doesn't seem right. The blue lines flow should be reveresed, and then the only thing it would be doing is blowing oil vapors into the turbo inlet.
according to this pic,there would be very little vacuum at idle correct?
but a throttle there would be vacuum?to suck the vapors from the block?</TD></TR></TABLE>
I honestly dont get how that blue line in that pics works. The direction of flow doesn't seem right. The blue lines flow should be reveresed, and then the only thing it would be doing is blowing oil vapors into the turbo inlet.
09-14-2003, 12:28 PM
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Re: (Haberdasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Haberdasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">by "intake pipe on turbo" do you mean pre-turbo?
Someone mentioned above venting the system to atmosphere, if you do that is seems to me that the system wouldn't work. By venting the PCV system you are opening the system, so there will no longer be any pressure displacement to keep the system running.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I meant the intake piping on the turbo(the part where the filter connects to...pre turbo...whatever. "Filter ---> Pipe with barb fittings ---> turbo inlet"
With the way I have mine setup, its still not vented into the atmosphere, and @ idle, its not gonna really make a difference. Its still a "closed" system and when throttle is pushed, vacuum will be there to pull air from the catch can, and the pressure from the valve cover and pcv will easily be able to flow through with no restrictions.
Someone mentioned above venting the system to atmosphere, if you do that is seems to me that the system wouldn't work. By venting the PCV system you are opening the system, so there will no longer be any pressure displacement to keep the system running.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, I meant the intake piping on the turbo(the part where the filter connects to...pre turbo...whatever. "Filter ---> Pipe with barb fittings ---> turbo inlet"
With the way I have mine setup, its still not vented into the atmosphere, and @ idle, its not gonna really make a difference. Its still a "closed" system and when throttle is pushed, vacuum will be there to pull air from the catch can, and the pressure from the valve cover and pcv will easily be able to flow through with no restrictions.
09-14-2003, 12:35 PM
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Re: (LiLOtaku)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LiLOtaku »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I honestly dont get how that blue line in that pics works. The direction of flow doesn't seem right. The blue lines flow should be reveresed, and then the only thing it would be doing is blowing oil vapors into the turbo inlet. </TD></TR></TABLE>
in that pic,air is forcerd up the hose going to the valve cover,just like it would be in a stock car.witht he 90 degree fitting facing into the flow,lets air push its way up.nopw the other fitting is facing the opposite direction making a vacuum affect.
so air is forced in the valve cover and sucked from the block.just like stock,except with having the catch can on there,to filter out the oil vapor.
this would all apply to turbo only,on a n/a you would have to use the manifold to get your vacuum.
i dont see why you would need a can on the valve cover because of the direction of the flow,all a can would do on the valve cover is clean air going in,right?
on a stock car,whats the direction of flow on the valve cover?does air push up the intake and into the valve cover?
I honestly dont get how that blue line in that pics works. The direction of flow doesn't seem right. The blue lines flow should be reveresed, and then the only thing it would be doing is blowing oil vapors into the turbo inlet. </TD></TR></TABLE>
in that pic,air is forcerd up the hose going to the valve cover,just like it would be in a stock car.witht he 90 degree fitting facing into the flow,lets air push its way up.nopw the other fitting is facing the opposite direction making a vacuum affect.
so air is forced in the valve cover and sucked from the block.just like stock,except with having the catch can on there,to filter out the oil vapor.
this would all apply to turbo only,on a n/a you would have to use the manifold to get your vacuum.
i dont see why you would need a can on the valve cover because of the direction of the flow,all a can would do on the valve cover is clean air going in,right?
on a stock car,whats the direction of flow on the valve cover?does air push up the intake and into the valve cover?