catch tank...
09-14-2003, 12:56 PM
#26
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Re: (civictypenos)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civictypenos »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
in that pic,air is forcerd up the hose going to the valve cover,just like it would be in a stock car.witht he 90 degree fitting facing into the flow,lets air push its way up.nopw the other fitting is facing the opposite direction making a vacuum affect.
so air is forced in the valve cover and sucked from the block.just like stock,except with having the catch can on there,to filter out the oil vapor.
this would all apply to turbo only,on a n/a you would have to use the manifold to get your vacuum.
i dont see why you would need a can on the valve cover because of the direction of the flow,all a can would do on the valve cover is clean air going in,right?
on a stock car,whats the direction of flow on the valve cover?does air push up the intake and into the valve cover?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Uh?........
On a stock car you can't go above 0 atmospheric pressure. The Valve cover vents into the intake piping and then it all goes into your intake manifold. This is the reason why people attach Catch Cans to the valve cover as well as the pcv.
I don't wanna be rude, but I think you gotta rethink a few things and do a little more research.
http://www.c-speedracing.com has an article on the way they setup their catch can. One of their hoses was going offa the valve cover and back into the inlet believe.
in that pic,air is forcerd up the hose going to the valve cover,just like it would be in a stock car.witht he 90 degree fitting facing into the flow,lets air push its way up.nopw the other fitting is facing the opposite direction making a vacuum affect.
so air is forced in the valve cover and sucked from the block.just like stock,except with having the catch can on there,to filter out the oil vapor.
this would all apply to turbo only,on a n/a you would have to use the manifold to get your vacuum.
i dont see why you would need a can on the valve cover because of the direction of the flow,all a can would do on the valve cover is clean air going in,right?
on a stock car,whats the direction of flow on the valve cover?does air push up the intake and into the valve cover?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Uh?........
On a stock car you can't go above 0 atmospheric pressure. The Valve cover vents into the intake piping and then it all goes into your intake manifold. This is the reason why people attach Catch Cans to the valve cover as well as the pcv.
I don't wanna be rude, but I think you gotta rethink a few things and do a little more research.
http://www.c-speedracing.com has an article on the way they setup their catch can. One of their hoses was going offa the valve cover and back into the inlet believe.
09-14-2003, 05:45 PM
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Re: (LiLOtaku)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LiLOtaku »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Uh?........
On a stock car you can't go above 0 atmospheric pressure. The Valve cover vents into the intake piping and then it all goes into your intake manifold. This is the reason why people attach Catch Cans to the valve cover as well as the pcv.
I don't wanna be rude, but I think you gotta rethink a few things and do a little more research.
http://www.c-speedracing.com has an article on the way they setup their catch can. One of their hoses was going offa the valve cover and back into the inlet believe.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i didnt make the pic, i was getting my info from the pic,in the pic air is forced into the vlave cover and not the other way around,thats waht im trying to figure out.
i looked at the article you gave me,its for a n/a car and was not very discriptive.
i guess the only one that im confused about is the valve cover one,the block one seems to be fine.
pre turbo inlet>pcv valve>catch can>block
can someone verify the direction of the flow coming or going from the valve cover?i guess i could just take my breather filter off and rev it up a few times to see if there is any pressure coming out of there when i rev it up??
Uh?........
On a stock car you can't go above 0 atmospheric pressure. The Valve cover vents into the intake piping and then it all goes into your intake manifold. This is the reason why people attach Catch Cans to the valve cover as well as the pcv.
I don't wanna be rude, but I think you gotta rethink a few things and do a little more research.
http://www.c-speedracing.com has an article on the way they setup their catch can. One of their hoses was going offa the valve cover and back into the inlet believe.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
i didnt make the pic, i was getting my info from the pic,in the pic air is forced into the vlave cover and not the other way around,thats waht im trying to figure out.
i looked at the article you gave me,its for a n/a car and was not very discriptive.
i guess the only one that im confused about is the valve cover one,the block one seems to be fine.
pre turbo inlet>pcv valve>catch can>block
can someone verify the direction of the flow coming or going from the valve cover?i guess i could just take my breather filter off and rev it up a few times to see if there is any pressure coming out of there when i rev it up??
09-14-2003, 05:47 PM
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Re: (LiLOtaku)
What we have here is a fundamental failure to comprehend the workings of the stock PCV system. So here is a diagram of the stock PCV system as it appears in a Honda repair manual:
Notice how the air flow from the intake pipe is flowing INTO the valve cover? This direction of airflow can only be reproduced on a FI motor by having the inlet and outlet pre-turbo
Notice how the air flow from the intake pipe is flowing INTO the valve cover? This direction of airflow can only be reproduced on a FI motor by having the inlet and outlet pre-turbo
09-14-2003, 08:51 PM
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Re: catch tank... (yellowturbo)
I just vented the hose that leads upto the PVC. I turned it around and veted it towards the ground and towards the back of the car..
My friend did the same thing, then used a plastic fuel filter between a line that runs from the valve cover the the intake before the turbo. No fancey $100 cans, just a simple filter to catch oil and help suck out the "blow-by" from the valve cover.
PVC is all emmissions crap... BYE BYE !!! I reallize that it helps relieve the crank case presure, but if the presure is that bad, then it can releive its self though a 5/8 hoses that dumps into the atmosphere..
My friend did the same thing, then used a plastic fuel filter between a line that runs from the valve cover the the intake before the turbo. No fancey $100 cans, just a simple filter to catch oil and help suck out the "blow-by" from the valve cover.
PVC is all emmissions crap... BYE BYE !!! I reallize that it helps relieve the crank case presure, but if the presure is that bad, then it can releive its self though a 5/8 hoses that dumps into the atmosphere..
09-14-2003, 09:12 PM
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Re: catch tank... (89dxhunchback)
Guys I think your making this harder than it has to be. A stock boosted motor like a (DSM) runs a similiar setup up as a stock honda PCV system. The PCV closes when there is boost and goes out of the valve cover tube. You will see some valve covers tapped with barb fittings to let out more ventilation when under boost. The vent tube on a DSM is routed to the intake pipe of the turbo, THATS IT!.
Now to seperate oil vapors, you can run a catch can on the PCV side and the Vent tube side, if your worried about emissions etc. I would not totally eliminate the PCV system. You will not find the turbo as a good vacuum source for a daily driven vehicle.
Running it on the turbo is as good as an open pcv system except your not dumping it on the atmostphere, your dumping it straight on the turbo. It doesn not help relieve crankcase pressure. If anything will make it worse.
Unless you have a vacuum pump or something to draw out the crankcase pressure, leave it alone.
Now to seperate oil vapors, you can run a catch can on the PCV side and the Vent tube side, if your worried about emissions etc. I would not totally eliminate the PCV system. You will not find the turbo as a good vacuum source for a daily driven vehicle.
Running it on the turbo is as good as an open pcv system except your not dumping it on the atmostphere, your dumping it straight on the turbo. It doesn not help relieve crankcase pressure. If anything will make it worse.
Unless you have a vacuum pump or something to draw out the crankcase pressure, leave it alone.
09-15-2003, 05:37 AM
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Re: catch tank... (89dxhunchback)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89dxhunchback »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just vented the hose that leads upto the PVC. I turned it around and veted it towards the ground and towards the back of the car..
My friend did the same thing, then used a plastic fuel filter between a line that runs from the valve cover the the intake before the turbo. No fancey $100 cans, just a simple filter to catch oil and help suck out the "blow-by" from the valve cover.
PVC is all emmissions crap... BYE BYE !!! I reallize that it helps relieve the crank case presure, but if the presure is that bad, then it can releive its self though a 5/8 hoses that dumps into the atmosphere..</TD></TR></TABLE>
that all makes very good sense.i am just concerned that the pressure might need vacuum to escape properly,but your right,why would it?
on the inline filter that your friend used,is there actual oil in that filter after its been used ?or does it stay clean?
My friend did the same thing, then used a plastic fuel filter between a line that runs from the valve cover the the intake before the turbo. No fancey $100 cans, just a simple filter to catch oil and help suck out the "blow-by" from the valve cover.
PVC is all emmissions crap... BYE BYE !!! I reallize that it helps relieve the crank case presure, but if the presure is that bad, then it can releive its self though a 5/8 hoses that dumps into the atmosphere..</TD></TR></TABLE>
that all makes very good sense.i am just concerned that the pressure might need vacuum to escape properly,but your right,why would it?
on the inline filter that your friend used,is there actual oil in that filter after its been used ?or does it stay clean?
09-15-2003, 06:43 AM
#32
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Re: catch tank... (civictypenos)
Does anyone have a definitive answer on whether removing the pcv completely will cause too hight of crankcase pressure? It seems that some people think that it needs vacuum to draw it out. I'm not concerned about emissions. Here LsTurbo91 is saying that removing the pcv will make crankcase pressures worse and not cause sufficient ventilation:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LsTurbo91 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Running it on the turbo is as good as an open pcv system except your not dumping it on the atmostphere, your dumping it straight on the turbo. It doesn not help relieve crankcase pressure. If anything will make it worse.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And here we have 89dxhunchback:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89dxhunchback »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I just vented the hose that leads upto the PVC. I turned it around and veted it towards the ground and towards the back of the car..
My friend did the same thing, then used a plastic fuel filter between a line that runs from the valve cover the the intake before the turbo. No fancey $100 cans, just a simple filter to catch oil and help suck out the "blow-by" from the valve cover.
PVC is all emmissions crap... BYE BYE !!! I reallize that it helps relieve the crank case presure, but if the presure is that bad, then it can releive its self though a 5/8 hoses that dumps into the atmosphere..
_______
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think im just gonna leave my pcv system alone. I'd rather have some oil vapors getting into my intake manifold rather than insufficient crankcase venitilation. Does anyone have any solid evidence on whether removing the pcv will not let the crankcase vent properly?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LsTurbo91 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Running it on the turbo is as good as an open pcv system except your not dumping it on the atmostphere, your dumping it straight on the turbo. It doesn not help relieve crankcase pressure. If anything will make it worse.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And here we have 89dxhunchback:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89dxhunchback »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I just vented the hose that leads upto the PVC. I turned it around and veted it towards the ground and towards the back of the car..
My friend did the same thing, then used a plastic fuel filter between a line that runs from the valve cover the the intake before the turbo. No fancey $100 cans, just a simple filter to catch oil and help suck out the "blow-by" from the valve cover.
PVC is all emmissions crap... BYE BYE !!! I reallize that it helps relieve the crank case presure, but if the presure is that bad, then it can releive its self though a 5/8 hoses that dumps into the atmosphere..
_______
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I think im just gonna leave my pcv system alone. I'd rather have some oil vapors getting into my intake manifold rather than insufficient crankcase venitilation. Does anyone have any solid evidence on whether removing the pcv will not let the crankcase vent properly?
09-15-2003, 10:03 AM
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Re: (LiLOtaku)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LiLOtaku »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I'm actually going to be Tee'ing both the lines into the catch can. </TD></TR></TABLE>
so your going to run it like this?
pre turbo>pcv valve>catch can>tee it off to the valve cover and the block?
so you have vacuum on both ports and using 1 catch can?
I'm actually going to be Tee'ing both the lines into the catch can. </TD></TR></TABLE>
so your going to run it like this?
pre turbo>pcv valve>catch can>tee it off to the valve cover and the block?
so you have vacuum on both ports and using 1 catch can?
09-15-2003, 10:29 AM
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Re: (civictypenos)
My friends "fuel filter" stays clean for the most part, but #1 he hasn't ran it for a long time #2 the fuel filter was brand new and clean when installed. It does have just a very little bit in it already, but every 30K miles doesn't seem like it's be too expense to maintain..
09-15-2003, 10:55 AM
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Re: (89dxhunchback)
If anything, I would run the catch can on the PCV side to help seperate oil vapors. There's nothing really fancy on the vent tube side that you need to do. You can leave it open or connect it to the intake side of the turbo if your concerned about oily residue on your engine bay. I'd rather have it there rather than dumping it on the turbo.
Here's the correct way to connect a catch can
1) on the PCV side
2) valve cover tube --> Catch Can --> turbo intake pipe
I really don't think number 2 is necessary unless your concerned about emissions which is beyond me if you are.
Here's the correct way to connect a catch can
1) on the PCV side
2) valve cover tube --> Catch Can --> turbo intake pipe
I really don't think number 2 is necessary unless your concerned about emissions which is beyond me if you are.
09-15-2003, 11:09 AM
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Re: (LsTurbo91)
I'm going to be running something similiar to this setup except for the intake part, you would either plumb that on the intake pipe of the turbo or leave it open along with the 2 tapped vent tube's.
09-15-2003, 12:25 PM
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Re: (LsTurbo91)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LsTurbo91 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If anything, I would run the catch can on the PCV side to help seperate oil vapors. There's nothing really fancy on the vent tube side that you need to do. You can leave it open or connect it to the intake side of the turbo if your concerned about oily residue on your engine bay. I'd rather have it there rather than dumping it on the turbo.
Here's the correct way to connect a catch can
1) on the PCV side
2) valve cover tube --> Catch Can --> turbo intake pipe
I really don't think number 2 is necessary unless your concerned about emissions which is beyond me if you are.</TD></TR></TABLE>
but on a turbo app you cant run the the hose to the manifold,it should be pre turbo,or else boost will shut the whole thing down.right?
Here's the correct way to connect a catch can
1) on the PCV side
2) valve cover tube --> Catch Can --> turbo intake pipe
I really don't think number 2 is necessary unless your concerned about emissions which is beyond me if you are.</TD></TR></TABLE>
but on a turbo app you cant run the the hose to the manifold,it should be pre turbo,or else boost will shut the whole thing down.right?
09-15-2003, 12:31 PM
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Re: (civictypenos)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civictypenos »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
so your going to run it like this?
pre turbo>pcv valve>catch can>tee it off to the valve cover and the block?
so you have vacuum on both ports and using 1 catch can?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Valve Cover + Block PCV(tee both into catch can) -->Catch Can --> Turbo Inlet Pipe(pre-turbo)
so your going to run it like this?
pre turbo>pcv valve>catch can>tee it off to the valve cover and the block?
so you have vacuum on both ports and using 1 catch can?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Valve Cover + Block PCV(tee both into catch can) -->Catch Can --> Turbo Inlet Pipe(pre-turbo)
09-15-2003, 01:10 PM
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Re: (civictypenos)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civictypenos »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
but on a turbo app you cant run the the hose to the manifold,it should be pre turbo,or else boost will shut the whole thing down.right?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes it will shut it down, same essence if you have no vacuum (i.e. 0inhg). When your N/A it also shuts down because there's no vacuum to pull at the given moment. Like I said, our "stock" PCV setup is not any different than a boosted DSM. There PCV valve is located on the intake manifold.
but on a turbo app you cant run the the hose to the manifold,it should be pre turbo,or else boost will shut the whole thing down.right?</TD></TR></TABLE>
yes it will shut it down, same essence if you have no vacuum (i.e. 0inhg). When your N/A it also shuts down because there's no vacuum to pull at the given moment. Like I said, our "stock" PCV setup is not any different than a boosted DSM. There PCV valve is located on the intake manifold.
09-15-2003, 09:37 PM
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Re: catch tank... (highmilehatch)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by highmilehatch »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I think im just gonna leave my pcv system alone. I'd rather have some oil vapors getting into my intake manifold rather than insufficient crankcase venitilation. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Doing so will contribute to detonation. Oil has a much lower octane rating than gas, increasing the chance of detonation.
I think im just gonna leave my pcv system alone. I'd rather have some oil vapors getting into my intake manifold rather than insufficient crankcase venitilation. </TD></TR></TABLE>
Doing so will contribute to detonation. Oil has a much lower octane rating than gas, increasing the chance of detonation.
09-16-2003, 12:07 AM
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Re: catch tank... (Haberdasher)
OK guys, most of you probably have the other tube coming out of your block that connect to the oil separator. But what about the newer blocks like 96 up LS/CRV, mine don't have the tube or outlet for me to draw pressure out of the block. All I have is the one on the valve cover. Is this enough to get pressure out? or do I need to drill & tap my block to get more pressure out. What do you think?
09-16-2003, 03:17 AM
#42
Re: catch tank... (boostedb20vtec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostedb20vtec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">OK guys, most of you probably have the other tube coming out of your block that connect to the oil separator. But what about the newer blocks like 96 up LS/CRV, mine don't have the tube or outlet for me to draw pressure out of the block. All I have is the one on the valve cover. Is this enough to get pressure out? or do I need to drill & tap my block to get more pressure out. What do you think?</TD></TR></TABLE>
what are you talking about. your 96 ls is a b-series engine block. All b-series have the similar design. That THING in the pix abouve with a million hoses coming out to the valve cover is over kill and stupid.
Let me explain to all you people how the stock pcv system works. First off, pcv is short for positvie crank ventilation. Yes crank!!! the crank rotates counterclockwise. This motion sucks air into the crankcase via the valve cover breather.
Now this air that is sucked in does NOT magically disappear! It displaces the oil vapors in the crankcase. So this fresh is source is important!!! Now, after this is where our pcv/stock oil seperater comes in to play. Notice: valve cover = IN and pcv = OUT
Some of you might be wondering why at idle, why the valve cover does not generate a vaccum? well let me explain, its simple. b/c at idle the pcv on a stock N/A car is closed (as we all know pcv stock is connected to the intake manifold or another words vaccum source). So if pcv is closed the OUT path is shut down so the crankcase will build pressure and eventually vent via valve cover. NOTICE: pcv = CLOSED then valve cover = OUT
However under high engine speeds, pcv is open and allows the above pcv pathway to work, fresh air into the crank via valve cover and oil vapors out via pcv or the first scenario described.
so if you think about it to install a catchcan on a n/a system is ez, but on a FI converted honda will require a different setup. because both scenarios have to be accommodated. At the moment the only way to i see of installing a catchcan for a turbo honda is:
PCV---->catchcan---->pre-turbo filter intake (vacuum source) ...allowing pcv to open under boost.
breather k/n filter on valve cover...thus allowing crank to breathe out at idle (when pcv is closed) and breathe in at high revs( when pcv is opened)
keith
what are you talking about. your 96 ls is a b-series engine block. All b-series have the similar design. That THING in the pix abouve with a million hoses coming out to the valve cover is over kill and stupid.
Let me explain to all you people how the stock pcv system works. First off, pcv is short for positvie crank ventilation. Yes crank!!! the crank rotates counterclockwise. This motion sucks air into the crankcase via the valve cover breather.
Now this air that is sucked in does NOT magically disappear! It displaces the oil vapors in the crankcase. So this fresh is source is important!!! Now, after this is where our pcv/stock oil seperater comes in to play. Notice: valve cover = IN and pcv = OUT
Some of you might be wondering why at idle, why the valve cover does not generate a vaccum? well let me explain, its simple. b/c at idle the pcv on a stock N/A car is closed (as we all know pcv stock is connected to the intake manifold or another words vaccum source). So if pcv is closed the OUT path is shut down so the crankcase will build pressure and eventually vent via valve cover. NOTICE: pcv = CLOSED then valve cover = OUT
However under high engine speeds, pcv is open and allows the above pcv pathway to work, fresh air into the crank via valve cover and oil vapors out via pcv or the first scenario described.
so if you think about it to install a catchcan on a n/a system is ez, but on a FI converted honda will require a different setup. because both scenarios have to be accommodated. At the moment the only way to i see of installing a catchcan for a turbo honda is:
PCV---->catchcan---->pre-turbo filter intake (vacuum source) ...allowing pcv to open under boost.
breather k/n filter on valve cover...thus allowing crank to breathe out at idle (when pcv is closed) and breathe in at high revs( when pcv is opened)
keith
09-16-2003, 04:15 AM
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Re: catch tank... (RoyFokker)
ok this is my understanding but i could be wrong: the pvc cant vent to the atmosphere becuase then it wont do its job. becuase there is not vacuum on it to suck it out. so thats why you shouldnt have it vent to the atmosphere
hint thats why your friend hasnt seen any oil in his........
hint thats why your friend hasnt seen any oil in his........
09-16-2003, 09:16 AM
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Re: catch tank... (RoyFokker)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by RoyFokker »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Let me explain to all you people how the stock pcv system works. First off, pcv is short for positvie crank ventilation. Yes crank!!! the crank rotates counterclockwise. This motion sucks air into the crankcase via the valve cover breather.
Now this air that is sucked in does NOT magically disappear! It displaces the oil vapors in the crankcase. So this fresh is source is important!!! Now, after this is where our pcv/stock oil seperater comes in to play. Notice: valve cover = IN and pcv = OUT
Some of you might be wondering why at idle, why the valve cover does not generate a vaccum? well let me explain, its simple. b/c at idle the pcv on a stock N/A car is closed (as we all know pcv stock is connected to the intake manifold or another words vaccum source). So if pcv is closed the OUT path is shut down so the crankcase will build pressure and eventually vent via valve cover. NOTICE: pcv = CLOSED then valve cover = OUT
However under high engine speeds, pcv is open and allows the above pcv pathway to work, fresh air into the crank via valve cover and oil vapors out via pcv or the first scenario described.
so if you think about it to install a catchcan on a n/a system is ez, but on a FI converted honda will require a different setup. because both scenarios have to be accommodated. At the moment the only way to i see of installing a catchcan for a turbo honda is:
PCV---->catchcan---->pre-turbo filter intake (vacuum source) ...allowing pcv to open under boost.
breather k/n filter on valve cover...thus allowing crank to breathe out at idle (when pcv is closed) and breathe in at high revs( when pcv is opened)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
this makes alot of sense, i will run this set up,keep checking the lines to see the coloration and whats working and whats not.
i did put in the 90 degree fitting,facing into the air (on the pre turbo pipe),just to see if actually had a "ram-air" effect,to push air in the valve cover.but it just has vacuum.so that wont work.so im just going to use the filter on the valve cover.
Let me explain to all you people how the stock pcv system works. First off, pcv is short for positvie crank ventilation. Yes crank!!! the crank rotates counterclockwise. This motion sucks air into the crankcase via the valve cover breather.
Now this air that is sucked in does NOT magically disappear! It displaces the oil vapors in the crankcase. So this fresh is source is important!!! Now, after this is where our pcv/stock oil seperater comes in to play. Notice: valve cover = IN and pcv = OUT
Some of you might be wondering why at idle, why the valve cover does not generate a vaccum? well let me explain, its simple. b/c at idle the pcv on a stock N/A car is closed (as we all know pcv stock is connected to the intake manifold or another words vaccum source). So if pcv is closed the OUT path is shut down so the crankcase will build pressure and eventually vent via valve cover. NOTICE: pcv = CLOSED then valve cover = OUT
However under high engine speeds, pcv is open and allows the above pcv pathway to work, fresh air into the crank via valve cover and oil vapors out via pcv or the first scenario described.
so if you think about it to install a catchcan on a n/a system is ez, but on a FI converted honda will require a different setup. because both scenarios have to be accommodated. At the moment the only way to i see of installing a catchcan for a turbo honda is:
PCV---->catchcan---->pre-turbo filter intake (vacuum source) ...allowing pcv to open under boost.
breather k/n filter on valve cover...thus allowing crank to breathe out at idle (when pcv is closed) and breathe in at high revs( when pcv is opened)
</TD></TR></TABLE>
this makes alot of sense, i will run this set up,keep checking the lines to see the coloration and whats working and whats not.
i did put in the 90 degree fitting,facing into the air (on the pre turbo pipe),just to see if actually had a "ram-air" effect,to push air in the valve cover.but it just has vacuum.so that wont work.so im just going to use the filter on the valve cover.
09-16-2003, 09:29 AM
#46
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Re: (LiLOtaku)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by LiLOtaku »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Valve Cover + Block PCV(tee both into catch can) -->Catch Can --> Turbo Inlet Pipe(pre-turbo)</TD></TR></TABLE>
then your going to have it sucking from the valve cover and the block?but no air going in,no air to circulate.i think it would start sucking striaght oil if the vacuum is enough to carry it up the tube.
Valve Cover + Block PCV(tee both into catch can) -->Catch Can --> Turbo Inlet Pipe(pre-turbo)</TD></TR></TABLE>
then your going to have it sucking from the valve cover and the block?but no air going in,no air to circulate.i think it would start sucking striaght oil if the vacuum is enough to carry it up the tube.
09-16-2003, 11:22 AM
#47
Re: catch tank... (RoyFokker)
keith/RoyFokker: How does air get from the valvecover to the crankcase with this setup? The valvecover cavity is physically separated from the crankcase cavity. There are no air passages between them that I know of, just oil and coolant. So how does the engine suck air in through the valvecover and down into the crankcase? 
09-16-2003, 12:10 PM
#48
Re: catch tank... (raene)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">keith/RoyFokker: How does air get from the valvecover to the crankcase with this setup? The valvecover cavity is physically separated from the crankcase cavity. There are no air passages between them that I know of, just oil and coolant. So how does the engine suck air in through the valvecover and down into the crankcase? </TD></TR></TABLE>
take a look at the diagram air is moved in thru valve cover by crank and out thru pcv. this is at high engine speeds for n/a setup
</TD></TR></TABLE>take a look at the diagram air is moved in thru valve cover by crank and out thru pcv. this is at high engine speeds for n/a setup
09-16-2003, 12:33 PM
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Re: catch tank... (raene)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by raene »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">keith/RoyFokker: How does air get from the valvecover to the crankcase with this setup? The valvecover cavity is physically separated from the crankcase cavity. There are no air passages between them that I know of, just oil and coolant. So how does the engine suck air in through the valvecover and down into the crankcase? </TD></TR></TABLE>
If you've ever seen a Honda head off the block, and the deck of the motor you'll notice large holes in the corners of the head and block for oil to return to the crankcase through.
</TD></TR></TABLE>If you've ever seen a Honda head off the block, and the deck of the motor you'll notice large holes in the corners of the head and block for oil to return to the crankcase through.