blew my motor...
10-13-2002, 10:10 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
blew my motor...
stock B16A2 running JRSC 6psi, JR FMU, JR BTC (set at 1 click 
), Field's VTEC Controller, Fuel pump, etc etc. I never dyno tuned the car 
I've had the charger on for 25k until this happened yesterday...
I was driving on the freeway at normal speeds, all of a sudden I hear a grinding noise when i hit the gas. The car is slowing down... I pull off to the side and the car turns off by itself and would not restart. I look at my rearview and see thick white smoke coming out the exhaust. So i pull the plugs and find lots of oil on the bottom of all 4. I took a flashlight and look through the plug holes and I think I see rough spots on the pistons (can't really tell.) But yea, I have a feeling it's the rings. What do u guys think?
My ultimate goal is JRSC 12psi w/ 75 shot nitrous via NX kit. What should i do? Wiseco pistons, Eagle Rods, resleeve the block, rebuild the head, Hondata or AEM standalone. I still have to do more research as I wanna do this right. Any tips?
peace.
), Field's VTEC Controller, Fuel pump, etc etc. I never dyno tuned the car I've had the charger on for 25k until this happened yesterday...I was driving on the freeway at normal speeds, all of a sudden I hear a grinding noise when i hit the gas. The car is slowing down... I pull off to the side and the car turns off by itself and would not restart. I look at my rearview and see thick white smoke coming out the exhaust. So i pull the plugs and find lots of oil on the bottom of all 4. I took a flashlight and look through the plug holes and I think I see rough spots on the pistons (can't really tell.) But yea, I have a feeling it's the rings. What do u guys think?
My ultimate goal is JRSC 12psi w/ 75 shot nitrous via NX kit. What should i do? Wiseco pistons, Eagle Rods, resleeve the block, rebuild the head, Hondata or AEM standalone. I still have to do more research as I wanna do this right. Any tips?
peace.
10-14-2002, 12:44 AM
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Re: blew my motor... (4 Stroke)
Not to be a dick but I think it went boom. Find out exactly what happened to the block and then you'll know what to do with it. I've seen how those JRSC's are designed and it's not very effecient at all. If your going to up the pressure invest in an alcohol/water injection system and buy lots of Isoproyl in the 91% variety and keep some in your glove box. Good luck, those Jackson units are hard to tune from what I've been hearing and reading on them. I personally would have bought an Endyn version. 
10-14-2002, 12:52 AM
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Re: blew my motor... (tzsir)
Not to be a dick but I think it went boom. Find out exactly what happened to the block and then you'll know what to do with it. I've seen how those JRSC's are designed and it's not very effecient at all. If your going to up the pressure invest in an alcohol/water injection system and buy lots of Isoproyl in the 91% variety and keep some in your glove box. Good luck, those Jackson units are hard to tune from what I've been hearing and reading on them. I personally would have bought an Endyn version
What exactly do you mean by designed inefficiently, and what makes you think Endyn knows more about Eaton superhcargers than Eaton?
[Modified by texan, 1:53 AM 10/14/2002]
What exactly do you mean by designed inefficiently, and what makes you think Endyn knows more about Eaton superhcargers than Eaton?
[Modified by texan, 1:53 AM 10/14/2002]
10-14-2002, 01:07 AM
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Re: blew my motor... (texan)
Eatons in it for the $$$$ and they haven't changed their rotor design for about 12 years now. Before that it was like 60 years. Eaton is just a warehouse setup to manufacture the blowers. Their actually hired out by someone else to make them. I unfortunatly can't remember who at this moment in time. Endyn does a lot of fluid dynamics research and I've seen their work in person and was quite impressed with the quality and effeciency of their work. That's just my opinion. I also like the works on static compression ratios that I've read and it all makes perfect sense to me from the physics standpoint. That and their the ones that started all this talk about quelch, and the high comp. on pump gas. 
ps: anything else is purely coincidence
edit: I didn't mean as it's a lousy design it just heats the air before it enters the
engine which is just asking for trouble. Endyn eliminated this problem by
redesigning the rotors out of a light weight Poly-material similar to nylon.
Then they reduced the turbulance on the inside to raise the V.E. even higher.
If you've ever opened an Eaton unit you can see the obvious "QUALITY" put
into their product.
[Modified by tzsir, 4:14 AM 10/14/2002]
ps: anything else is purely coincidence
edit: I didn't mean as it's a lousy design it just heats the air before it enters the
engine which is just asking for trouble. Endyn eliminated this problem by
redesigning the rotors out of a light weight Poly-material similar to nylon.
Then they reduced the turbulance on the inside to raise the V.E. even higher.
If you've ever opened an Eaton unit you can see the obvious "QUALITY" put
into their product.
[Modified by tzsir, 4:14 AM 10/14/2002]
10-14-2002, 01:46 AM
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Re: blew my motor... (tzsir)
1) Any company you can point out to me that isn't "in it for the money" is run by idiots. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expecting to profit from one's hard work and time, it's actually rather fundamental to our culture.
2) Eaton hasn't changed their basic rotor design for some time now for good reason; it works just fine. The overall package, as I'm sure you know, is on it's 4th generation now. And they (Eaton and Magnuson) are constantly looking for ways to improve upon it. And Eaton didn't start making superchargers until 1989, which by the way also earned them one of the industry's most prestiguous engineering excellence awards (given by SAE during said year).
3) You'll find in most areas of manufacture that no complex unit is completely made by one company, and that's a good thing. I'll thank them to have the bearings made by reputable bearing manufacturers, the rotors to be coated by a reputable O.E. level coater, and even for the casing to be cast at a proper O.E. level foundry. In your opinion, would the opposite approach be more sensible for producing a cost effective, reliable unit?
4) Quench area has been around for at least 40 years (longer than I can remember), and running high levels of compression to extract maximum thermal efficiency from the motor on any given fuel is one fundamental of the Otto cycle. People have been sorting out ways to improve both fuels, combustion chamber dynamics and the like since the ICE's introduction. Hence I, albeit only my opinion, will have to say that Endyn is not responsible for this phenomena.
5) Any and all compressors heat the air before it enters the engine, it goes right along with the laws of physics.
6) Doesn't matter what material you make the rotors out of, it's still going to heat things up. Especially the basic roots design, which by nature becomes increasingly leaky as you either increase the pressure ratio or lower rotor RPM. Eaton's rotor tolerances and their axial twist help to minimize this, but it's only so effective. If you're looking for excellent adiabatic efficiency, look to centrifugal compressors. Oh, and have you ever seen one of those Endyn made rotors? I'd also be interested in what sort of expansion coefficients this materal has relative to the aluminum casing that houses it.
7) Eaton's rotor to casing tolerance is smaller than the width of a human hair. Their units are used throughout the world in O.E. applications, and are in some cases warrantied by the factory to over 5 years of guaranteed service. Does that sound like a poorly designed or assembled compressor to you? Can Endyn claim anything of the like for "their" products?
Ps- I don't mean to get ugly about Endyn or anything, but I always get bugged by people actually thinking that some small aftermarket company who's yet to have made a real name for themselves in over, what, 20 years of business is suddenly smarter than the professionals who actually do design and build the products we drive. And I didn't want to make this post so long, but this ludicrous trial user thing demands this be my last post for the next several hours. So apologies in advance, peace.
[Modified by texan, 9:32 AM 10/14/2002]
2) Eaton hasn't changed their basic rotor design for some time now for good reason; it works just fine. The overall package, as I'm sure you know, is on it's 4th generation now. And they (Eaton and Magnuson) are constantly looking for ways to improve upon it. And Eaton didn't start making superchargers until 1989, which by the way also earned them one of the industry's most prestiguous engineering excellence awards (given by SAE during said year).
3) You'll find in most areas of manufacture that no complex unit is completely made by one company, and that's a good thing. I'll thank them to have the bearings made by reputable bearing manufacturers, the rotors to be coated by a reputable O.E. level coater, and even for the casing to be cast at a proper O.E. level foundry. In your opinion, would the opposite approach be more sensible for producing a cost effective, reliable unit?
4) Quench area has been around for at least 40 years (longer than I can remember), and running high levels of compression to extract maximum thermal efficiency from the motor on any given fuel is one fundamental of the Otto cycle. People have been sorting out ways to improve both fuels, combustion chamber dynamics and the like since the ICE's introduction. Hence I, albeit only my opinion, will have to say that Endyn is not responsible for this phenomena.
5) Any and all compressors heat the air before it enters the engine, it goes right along with the laws of physics.
6) Doesn't matter what material you make the rotors out of, it's still going to heat things up. Especially the basic roots design, which by nature becomes increasingly leaky as you either increase the pressure ratio or lower rotor RPM. Eaton's rotor tolerances and their axial twist help to minimize this, but it's only so effective. If you're looking for excellent adiabatic efficiency, look to centrifugal compressors. Oh, and have you ever seen one of those Endyn made rotors? I'd also be interested in what sort of expansion coefficients this materal has relative to the aluminum casing that houses it.
7) Eaton's rotor to casing tolerance is smaller than the width of a human hair. Their units are used throughout the world in O.E. applications, and are in some cases warrantied by the factory to over 5 years of guaranteed service. Does that sound like a poorly designed or assembled compressor to you? Can Endyn claim anything of the like for "their" products?
Ps- I don't mean to get ugly about Endyn or anything, but I always get bugged by people actually thinking that some small aftermarket company who's yet to have made a real name for themselves in over, what, 20 years of business is suddenly smarter than the professionals who actually do design and build the products we drive. And I didn't want to make this post so long, but this ludicrous trial user thing demands this be my last post for the next several hours. So apologies in advance, peace.
[Modified by texan, 9:32 AM 10/14/2002]
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10-14-2002, 05:10 AM
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Re: blew my motor... (texan)
1) Any company you can point out to me that isn't "in it for the money" is run by idiots. There's absolutely nothing wrong with expecting to profit from one's hard work and time, it's actually rather fundamental to our culture.
2) Eaton hasn't changed their basic rotor design for some time now for good reason; it works just fine. The overall package, as I'm sure you know, is on it's 4th generation now. And they (Eaton and Magnuson) are constantly looking for ways to improve upon it. And Eaton didn't start making superchargers until 1989, which by the way also earned them one of the industry's most prestiguous engineering excellence awards (given by SAE during said year).
3) You'll find in most areas of manufacture that no complex unit is completely made by one company, and that's a good thing. I'll thank them to have the bearings made by reputable bearing manufacturers, the rotors to be coated by a reputable O.E. level coater, and even for the casing to be cast at a proper O.E. level foundry. In your opinion, would the opposite approach be more sensible for producing a cost effective, reliable unit?
4) Quench area has been around for at least 40 years (longer than I can remember), and running high levels of compression to extract maximum thermal efficiency from the motor on any given fuel is one fundamental of the Otto cycle. People have been sorting out ways to improve both fuels, combustion chamber dynamics and the like since the ICE's introduction. Hence I, albeit only my opinion, will have to say that Endyn is not responsible for this phenomena.
5) Any and all compressors heat the air before it enters the engine, it goes right along with the laws of physics.
6) Doesn't matter what material you make the rotors out of, it's still going to heat things up. Especially the basic roots design, which by nature becomes increasingly leaky as you either increase the pressure ratio or lower rotor RPM. Eaton's rotor tolerances and their axial twist help to minimize this, but it's only so effective. If you're looking for excellent adiabatic efficiency, look to centrifugal compressors. Oh, and have you ever seen one of those Endyn made rotors? I'd also be interested in what sort of expansion coefficients this materal has relative to the aluminum casing that houses it.
7) Eaton's rotor to casing tolerance is smaller than the width of a human hair. Their units are used throughout the world in O.E. applications, and are in some cases warrantied by the factory to over 5 years of guaranteed service. Does that sound like a poorly designed or assembled compressor to you? Can Endyn claim anything of the like for "their" products?
Ps- I don't mean to get ugly about Endyn or anything, but I always get bugged by people actually thinking that some small aftermarket company who's yet to have made a real name for themselves in over, what, 20 years of business is suddenly smarter than the professionals who actually do design and build the products we drive. And I didn't want to make this post so long, but this ludicrous trial user thing demands this be my last post for the next several hours. So apologies in advance, peace.
[Modified by texan, 2:51 AM 10/14/2002]
2) Eaton hasn't changed their basic rotor design for some time now for good reason; it works just fine. The overall package, as I'm sure you know, is on it's 4th generation now. And they (Eaton and Magnuson) are constantly looking for ways to improve upon it. And Eaton didn't start making superchargers until 1989, which by the way also earned them one of the industry's most prestiguous engineering excellence awards (given by SAE during said year).
3) You'll find in most areas of manufacture that no complex unit is completely made by one company, and that's a good thing. I'll thank them to have the bearings made by reputable bearing manufacturers, the rotors to be coated by a reputable O.E. level coater, and even for the casing to be cast at a proper O.E. level foundry. In your opinion, would the opposite approach be more sensible for producing a cost effective, reliable unit?
4) Quench area has been around for at least 40 years (longer than I can remember), and running high levels of compression to extract maximum thermal efficiency from the motor on any given fuel is one fundamental of the Otto cycle. People have been sorting out ways to improve both fuels, combustion chamber dynamics and the like since the ICE's introduction. Hence I, albeit only my opinion, will have to say that Endyn is not responsible for this phenomena.
5) Any and all compressors heat the air before it enters the engine, it goes right along with the laws of physics.
6) Doesn't matter what material you make the rotors out of, it's still going to heat things up. Especially the basic roots design, which by nature becomes increasingly leaky as you either increase the pressure ratio or lower rotor RPM. Eaton's rotor tolerances and their axial twist help to minimize this, but it's only so effective. If you're looking for excellent adiabatic efficiency, look to centrifugal compressors. Oh, and have you ever seen one of those Endyn made rotors? I'd also be interested in what sort of expansion coefficients this materal has relative to the aluminum casing that houses it.
7) Eaton's rotor to casing tolerance is smaller than the width of a human hair. Their units are used throughout the world in O.E. applications, and are in some cases warrantied by the factory to over 5 years of guaranteed service. Does that sound like a poorly designed or assembled compressor to you? Can Endyn claim anything of the like for "their" products?
Ps- I don't mean to get ugly about Endyn or anything, but I always get bugged by people actually thinking that some small aftermarket company who's yet to have made a real name for themselves in over, what, 20 years of business is suddenly smarter than the professionals who actually do design and build the products we drive. And I didn't want to make this post so long, but this ludicrous trial user thing demands this be my last post for the next several hours. So apologies in advance, peace.
[Modified by texan, 2:51 AM 10/14/2002]
This guy definately knows his stuff. He still got the prelude too, hehe
10-14-2002, 09:08 AM
#11
What is this crap?
Re: blew my motor... (texan)
If you're looking for excellent adiabatic efficiency, look to centrifugal compressors
)
10-14-2002, 09:29 AM
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Re: blew my motor... (4 Stroke)
The never-appearing-for-sale Endyne Supercharger uses an Eaton blower also! 
It's jsut a bigger supercharger, spun more slowly to increase efficiency.
I can see what the guy's saying, JRSC's KIT, and manifold design is decent, but not a super agressive race setup. It's good for the average guy who's looking to add a few ponies and add to the lackluster stock torque curve of most Honda engine designs.
I'd also agree that if the Endyne kit ever did actually come out, it would be better for the hardcore "we're not scared to facricate some stuff" crowd, simply because once you install a smaller drive pulley, all compressor efficiency isn't thrown out the window, and the manifold design is a MUCH better piece..
It's jsut a bigger supercharger, spun more slowly to increase efficiency.
I can see what the guy's saying, JRSC's KIT, and manifold design is decent, but not a super agressive race setup. It's good for the average guy who's looking to add a few ponies and add to the lackluster stock torque curve of most Honda engine designs.
I'd also agree that if the Endyne kit ever did actually come out, it would be better for the hardcore "we're not scared to facricate some stuff" crowd, simply because once you install a smaller drive pulley, all compressor efficiency isn't thrown out the window, and the manifold design is a MUCH better piece..
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