Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
07-12-2011, 06:55 AM
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Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
Quick question...
With the S300 i have the set timing feature...Do i still have to jump the service connector?
2nd question.. I have a AEBS crankshaft pulley (it has the harmoics like oem its not an alluminum one) it did not come with timing marks...and the cover is kinda mesed up its from a b16 jdm sir... so i really dont have marks to refernece
This what i was planning to do... My lower plate that covers the flywheel is off..
Could i set it at TDC then make a reference mark on the flywheel and use a timing light with the advance feature... Then i could make the mark at TDC then set the timing gun to 16 degrees and line it up.
It was set when i had it tuned but ive had the block resleeved and want to make sure its still at base timing for peace of mind...i did mark the dist where it was but the block was shaved slightly and the head was resurfaced...so it could be off
Will this work? i dont see why it wouldnt...it would be much easier for me to make a mark on fly wheel...( figured id cut a piece of tape with a thin strip in center, then at tdc tape it up and spray a line on the flywheel) plus im pretty sure preludes have timing marks on flywheel..so i dont see why it should be much diffrent...
With the S300 i have the set timing feature...Do i still have to jump the service connector?
2nd question.. I have a AEBS crankshaft pulley (it has the harmoics like oem its not an alluminum one) it did not come with timing marks...and the cover is kinda mesed up its from a b16 jdm sir... so i really dont have marks to refernece
This what i was planning to do... My lower plate that covers the flywheel is off..
Could i set it at TDC then make a reference mark on the flywheel and use a timing light with the advance feature... Then i could make the mark at TDC then set the timing gun to 16 degrees and line it up.
It was set when i had it tuned but ive had the block resleeved and want to make sure its still at base timing for peace of mind...i did mark the dist where it was but the block was shaved slightly and the head was resurfaced...so it could be off
Will this work? i dont see why it wouldnt...it would be much easier for me to make a mark on fly wheel...( figured id cut a piece of tape with a thin strip in center, then at tdc tape it up and spray a line on the flywheel) plus im pretty sure preludes have timing marks on flywheel..so i dont see why it should be much diffrent...
07-12-2011, 07:08 AM
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Re: Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
1.) no you dont have to just the service connector
2.) whats the point of putting on this other crank pulley? anyways, i dont see any problems with your theory. although i doubt it would be anywhere near as accurate as the stock setup, so you mind as well just center the dizzy and be done.
if you do decide to try that method out, your obviously going to need an advance light, and not just a regular light since theres no way your going to accurately mark 12-14-16 or whatever you base ignition marks are.
3.) having machine work done to the block, is not going to ultimately affect ignition timing. it affects cam timing. what you need to do is compensate through a cam gear and while you should still have your ecu in sync with the dizzy, everything else you can do through the computer!
2.) whats the point of putting on this other crank pulley? anyways, i dont see any problems with your theory. although i doubt it would be anywhere near as accurate as the stock setup, so you mind as well just center the dizzy and be done.
if you do decide to try that method out, your obviously going to need an advance light, and not just a regular light since theres no way your going to accurately mark 12-14-16 or whatever you base ignition marks are.
3.) having machine work done to the block, is not going to ultimately affect ignition timing. it affects cam timing. what you need to do is compensate through a cam gear and while you should still have your ecu in sync with the dizzy, everything else you can do through the computer!
07-12-2011, 07:27 AM
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Re: Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
u should just use a coat hanger to find tdc for one than mark whatever crank pully u have on there with white out or something
07-12-2011, 07:41 AM
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Re: Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
i dont think i would use a coat hanger lol....but a thin steel tubing....or even a long 3/4 " extention would work fine...Finding TDC isnt my issue really
I think what im doing would work..Reason why i got this pulley was all i had was that aluminum garbage one...i was thinking this was a good oem replacement but oviously no marks so not so much..but it does have the harmonics rubber in there.
Why i didnt go oem...i dont know but clearly wasnt a good idea.
i dont want to buy another one or a new timing cover since the cover i dont feel is the correct one..
I agree it affect cam timing...but that in turn can affect ignition timing...and i dont have to tools to dial in true TDC with the cam gears...I do have adjustable gears but i leave them at 0 each...im running factory gsr cams.
Im thinking the Flywheel markings will work. if done correctly you could be very close to the accuracy of using the oem method.
Eventually i will switch over next time the motor comes out...but for now i wanted to check it too make sure its correct..
Car runs fine...no issues...but it was just concerning me since i never re checked it after it got sleeved... and if its off then it could be throwing my hondata tune off in regards to the ignition..
I think what im doing would work..Reason why i got this pulley was all i had was that aluminum garbage one...i was thinking this was a good oem replacement but oviously no marks so not so much..but it does have the harmonics rubber in there.
Why i didnt go oem...i dont know but clearly wasnt a good idea.
i dont want to buy another one or a new timing cover since the cover i dont feel is the correct one..
I agree it affect cam timing...but that in turn can affect ignition timing...and i dont have to tools to dial in true TDC with the cam gears...I do have adjustable gears but i leave them at 0 each...im running factory gsr cams.
Im thinking the Flywheel markings will work. if done correctly you could be very close to the accuracy of using the oem method.
Eventually i will switch over next time the motor comes out...but for now i wanted to check it too make sure its correct..
Car runs fine...no issues...but it was just concerning me since i never re checked it after it got sleeved... and if its off then it could be throwing my hondata tune off in regards to the ignition..
07-12-2011, 07:43 AM
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Re: Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
i just dont think ill get a good mark on the crank pulley doing that myself....i think i would be much better off marking on flywheel and transmission case ( duck tape- think strip in center and spray paint a line) it would be a much straighter line using the flywheel.
07-12-2011, 08:08 AM
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Re: Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
Im saying your not going to have accurate results because even on the crank pulley, you have at least a "degree" of "play" in either direction at TDC
What im saying is, suppose you had the correct marks on your pulley.... line it up to TDC, put a screw driver or rod or whatever you want in cylinder one.... now move the crankshaft a hair in either direction and you wont be able to see any movement from the screwdriver, and obvious your crank still moved a couple degrees on the crank pulley.
Okay now a flywheel is like twice the size of that crank pulley..... wiggle it that same couple degrees in either direction, that "mark" your going to make on the flywheel will move a HELL of a lot more in either direction than the mark on the crank pulley.
What im saying is, without an oem marking, what YOU think is TDC is most likely going to be incorrect; defeating the whole purpose of this.
What im saying is, suppose you had the correct marks on your pulley.... line it up to TDC, put a screw driver or rod or whatever you want in cylinder one.... now move the crankshaft a hair in either direction and you wont be able to see any movement from the screwdriver, and obvious your crank still moved a couple degrees on the crank pulley.
Okay now a flywheel is like twice the size of that crank pulley..... wiggle it that same couple degrees in either direction, that "mark" your going to make on the flywheel will move a HELL of a lot more in either direction than the mark on the crank pulley.
What im saying is, without an oem marking, what YOU think is TDC is most likely going to be incorrect; defeating the whole purpose of this.
07-12-2011, 09:58 AM
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Re: Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
i can def see where youre goign there...that makes complete sense.
Do you think that i could use the cam gears as a reference? i have adjustable aem cam gears..which are set at zero... the - - on each gear (horizontal marks)would lined up at tdc.
would i be able to point the timing gun there to reference
Then again cam shaft moves half the speed of the crank so you would think it wouldnt be as accurate as well.
What if i take crank pulley off...put at oem tdc marks on oil pump housing then make the mark on fly wheel..
if i go oem route i need a new timing cover and crank pulley which im not going to purchase at this time.
i think doing it the the flywheel is the best way for now...even a degree off or two is ok ...per oem they give u a 2 +/- from 18....im just making sure its not way off...
WHy do u not have to jump the service connector when using the s300 to set base timing? it does it autmatically when usign the set timing feature on the smanager software?
Do you think that i could use the cam gears as a reference? i have adjustable aem cam gears..which are set at zero... the - - on each gear (horizontal marks)would lined up at tdc.
would i be able to point the timing gun there to reference
Then again cam shaft moves half the speed of the crank so you would think it wouldnt be as accurate as well.
What if i take crank pulley off...put at oem tdc marks on oil pump housing then make the mark on fly wheel..
if i go oem route i need a new timing cover and crank pulley which im not going to purchase at this time.
i think doing it the the flywheel is the best way for now...even a degree off or two is ok ...per oem they give u a 2 +/- from 18....im just making sure its not way off...
WHy do u not have to jump the service connector when using the s300 to set base timing? it does it autmatically when usign the set timing feature on the smanager software?
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07-12-2011, 10:08 AM
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Re: Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
I think you have the right idea now. What I would do, is get that lower timing cover off, take off the crank pulley. and make sure the engine is at TDC by making sure the crank gear and cam gear are both lines up with their pointers on the block. replace crank pulley ( dont torque it down yet ) look down through the "viewer" and get a TDC mark on the pulley your using.
You shouldnt need any other marks if your using an advance light.
As for the service connector, you dont need to use it in s300 or any other tuneable ecu for that matter, because essentially all you want to do is use that feature to LOCK the physical ignition advance to a certain number, say 16*, and get out and make sure the timing light matches what your tuning program says.
On a stock application, jumping the connector tells the ecu not to try and compensate for changes in timing while your adjusting the distributor.
You shouldnt need any other marks if your using an advance light.
As for the service connector, you dont need to use it in s300 or any other tuneable ecu for that matter, because essentially all you want to do is use that feature to LOCK the physical ignition advance to a certain number, say 16*, and get out and make sure the timing light matches what your tuning program says.
On a stock application, jumping the connector tells the ecu not to try and compensate for changes in timing while your adjusting the distributor.
07-12-2011, 07:48 PM
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Re: Base Ignition Timing Boosted B18c
I think you have the right idea now. What I would do, is get that lower timing cover off, take off the crank pulley. and make sure the engine is at TDC by making sure the crank gear and cam gear are both lines up with their pointers on the block. replace crank pulley ( dont torque it down yet ) look down through the "viewer" and get a TDC mark on the pulley your using.
You shouldnt need any other marks if your using an advance light.
As for the service connector, you dont need to use it in s300 or any other tuneable ecu for that matter, because essentially all you want to do is use that feature to LOCK the physical ignition advance to a certain number, say 16*, and get out and make sure the timing light matches what your tuning program says.
On a stock application, jumping the connector tells the ecu not to try and compensate for changes in timing while your adjusting the distributor.
You shouldnt need any other marks if your using an advance light.
As for the service connector, you dont need to use it in s300 or any other tuneable ecu for that matter, because essentially all you want to do is use that feature to LOCK the physical ignition advance to a certain number, say 16*, and get out and make sure the timing light matches what your tuning program says.
On a stock application, jumping the connector tells the ecu not to try and compensate for changes in timing while your adjusting the distributor.
what you said about the timing tdc mark on the crank pulley will work, but that will give you the mechanical timing of the engine. the 16 degrees advance of base timing marks will be to the left of that tdc mark. Do NOt use the tdc marks to sync the ignition timing, as you will be 16 degrees retarded.
honestly, for something like this just use the oem crank pulley
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