VTEC_PRODUCTION

ok just sold my gsr and lookin for another teg...the thing is i was going to boost the GSR but it was a great NA motor so i just kept my components and sold it cause of money issues...well now im in the market again and have many things to ponder on...i REALLY want to boost this time but then only thing is, is it better to boost a vtec motor? or a nonvtev motor...from the reading ive done at barnes and noble to the drag experts ive talked to i keep hearing the same thing...non vtec is better because vtec causes way too many complications...what?!?! i say to myself at first but i guess i can see where they are coming from...what are your opinions? if nonvtech is better then i may go with a ls just because its a good base...if not ill try and find a gsr...any ideas guys and gals???

BB6-213

Vtec and Turbo is the best thing since sliced bread.

delslo93

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BB6-213 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Vtec and Turbo is the best thing since sliced bread.</TD></TR></TABLE>

+1 nothing like vtec boost

VTEC_PRODUCTION

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by delslo93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

+1 nothing like vtec boost</TD></TR></TABLE>

i need a better explanation hahaha...

dreadcivicturbo

everything you read is proberly going to say that ls is better for boost because of compression issues.......BUT WHEN V-TEC ACTIVATES ON TOP OF THE BOOST, GOT DAM JUST HOLD ON..........

delslo93

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i need a better explanation hahaha...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would boost the GSR. Why? you may ask. Well the heads of Vtec model B series motors flow extremely well. Some people make upwards of 600+whp on stock port heads. This is the one downside of an LS motor. To make a lot of power on an LS head people do porting and big cams to allow the head to flow better. By having a better flowing head stock on a GSR you will spool the turbo faster making quicker power and it will hold the power all the way to redline with Vtec. When Vtec engages the turbo is allowed to spool even better and with the intake valves opening at there full potential during Vtec more power will be made. Also if you keep it stock (no aftermarket rod bolts) the GSR motor can be revved higher meaning you can hold the power longer and stay in the power band longer. GSR trannies are also better geared and allow for quicker acceleration. GSR's compression is also awsome for boosted applications. With a good tune a stock GSR can make anywere from 300 to 400 or even more power.

tony413

i too was in your shoes and here my break down of things.

1. CAMS--- vtec have a low lobe to save gas and a high cam for power so ask yourself do i need to save gas ? also from looking around i found companies that make LS cams with close or competitive cams that are the same as the CTR, ITR, and GSR cam durations, lifts, and degrees.

2. HEADS---- we all know that vtec heads flow better than LS heads so theres no comparing them there. UNTIL like you said, you need to port-n-polish the LS head and change the valvetrain, which you would usually do anyway. from asking around a good and effective p-n-p LS head should flow about the same or a little better than a stock B16A head which is great stock.

3. COMPRESSION---- this is not really something to be to concerned with as you can change it by milling, pistons, gaskets, and reshaping combustion chambers.

4. RPMS----- im sure im gonna get flamed about this but i'll say it anyway. rpms are only one of many factors that help get you down the track. ask yourself this question which car gets quicker ET's 250 ft/lbs @ 7500rpms or 250 ft/lbs @ 9500rpms. if you picked the second you are correct but you need the correct gearing.

5. TRANNIES----- any B-series can fit on another B-series. if your gonna drive the car on the highway and keep it DD stay with the LS. if your gonna race like 4 times a week and go all out then get a type-r. you mentioned something about staying in the powerband at high rpms, that too is gonna depend on the trannies gearing.

last but not least both motor are great for boost in the end it depends on YOU and YOUR DRIVING style.

VTEC_PRODUCTION

is there a difference btween ITR tranny and GSR tranny?

1158

Yes...ITR has shorter gearing. Final drive and 1st are the same...but 2,3,4,5 are all lower in ITR tranny.

Here is a listing off the gear ratios...http://www.team-integra.net/se...ID=43

GetawayInMoscow

By the time you waste all your money port and polishing a LS head to get to what a B16 head flows stock, you could have just bought a VTEC head in the first place and probably a couple lap dances at your local strip joint.

VTEC ftw

LS ftl

djtrini

I agree, vtec turbo FTW!

Its true, once vtec kicks in on well built turbo B series engines......its almost like you hit the "happy" Button!! lol

With my CTR cams it just puts a big smile on my face from 6k rpm ++

tony413

lol guys if you have a ported LS head with cams that are the same spec as CTR,ITR, or GSR. then wouldnt you be in vtec all the time. or is it because you guys like the sound c'mon admit it

GetawayInMoscow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">lol guys if you have a ported LS head with cams that are the same spec as CTR,ITR, or GSR. then wouldnt you be in vtec all the time. or is it because you guys like the sound c'mon admit it </TD></TR></TABLE>

No you wouldn't be in VTEC because LS heads don't have VTEC.

Not to mention your manifold options are limited, etc.

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GetawayInMoscow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

No you wouldn't be in VTEC because LS heads don't have VTEC.

Not to mention your manifold options are limited, etc.</TD></TR></TABLE>

vtec is only the engagement of the low lobe to the high lobe and since all LS heads can use cams with the same spec's as the high lobe of a vtec cam, then its basically always in vtec to say the least. im not sure if im expressing my words correctly but just go look at the specs. also alot of companies make intake manifolds for Vtec and LS, but i find the best options to be ones that are custom made for your exact purpose.

delslo93

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tony413 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

vtec is only the engagement of the low lobe to the high lobe and since all LS heads can use cams with the same spec's as the high lobe of a vtec cam, then its basically always in vtec to say the least. im not sure if im expressing my words correctly but just go look at the specs. also alot of companies make intake manifolds for Vtec and LS, but i find the best options to be ones that are custom made for your exact purpose. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah but if you are going to drive this on the street Vtec is the only way to go. The bigger cam lobe you will need on the LS cams will make idleing very rough and gas mileage shitty all the time. Vtec allows for sensible driving when you want to and ***** to the walls when you want to. Not one or the other.

tony413

valid point thats also why i said it depends on the driver and the drivers style. also to help with idle he could just tune it alittle better and use valvetrain components that compliment each other.

aaronISthrowed

V-BOOST! FTW

HiProfile

GOALS is the most important word when deciding here.

For a street car, you can have a bone-stock B18B1 push 300whp, more than enough for street tires. Build it, and the stock head can take you to 400whp.

If you have cash to burn, get the B18C1/5. With cams (C1), intake mani (C1), and good turbo selection, you can have 450whp on pump gas, &gt;500whp with &gt;99 octane.

Conversely, for the same amount of cash, you have a built B18B1 & a ball-bearing turbo for the price of a stock B18C1 & 'regular' turbo.


<U>In the end, if this will be your first turbo Honda, I'd suggest the B18B1. Its a lot easier on your wallet if that block blows opposed to a B18C1/5. You can also go LS/VTEC afterwards.</U>

tony413

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">GOALS is the most important word when deciding here.

For a street car, you can have a bone-stock B18B1 push 300whp, more than enough for street tires. Build it, and the stock head can take you to 400whp.

If you have cash to burn, get the B18C1/5. With cams (C1), intake mani (C1), and good turbo selection, you can have 450whp on pump gas, &gt;500whp with &gt;99 octane.

Conversely, for the same amount of cash, you have a built B18B1 & a ball-bearing turbo for the price of a stock B18C1 & 'regular' turbo.


<U>In the end, if this will be your first turbo Honda, I'd suggest the B18B1. Its a lot easier on your wallet if that block blows opposed to a B18C1/5. You can also go LS/VTEC afterwards.</U></TD></TR></TABLE>

thank you well said

VTEC_PRODUCTION

well both engines im going to sleeve and hi compression and boost do not go hand in hand...thats like saying you will get more HP with higher octane...im not saying its impossible im just saying its harder to come by...

so either way i see that i will need to sleeve and change alot of the bottom end...my internal conflict im having is weather to buy a cheap ls or wait around for a gsr because they are harder to find...i live in the midwest and im looking for something from the south or southwest...so if anyone had any pointers that way im really interested in finding a GSR 94 95 somewhere in there...

thanks for all the advice and knowledge so far i really appreciate it...

tony413

well speed cost money. how fast do you wanna go.

HiProfile

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTEC_PRODUCTION &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so either way i see that i will need to sleeve and change alot of the bottom end...my internal conflict im having is weather to buy a cheap ls or wait around for a gsr because they are harder to find...i live in the midwest and im looking for something from the south or southwest...so if anyone had any pointers that way im really interested in finding a GSR 94 95 somewhere in there... </TD></TR></TABLE>

So you're going for 500+ whp? All you've stated so far is you want to sleeve and build the block. Get an LS, build/sleeve the block, then run the stock head until you find some ricer with a b16a thats blown, then use that vtec head.

The main differences is the GSR has lighter rods (narrower big end, shorter), has oil squirters, and a crank girdle. More bearing surface area provided by the B18A/B is a good thing, forged pistons don't need to be oil cooled, and you don't have to spin a FI motor to 10k rpm to make decent power. In other words, there's little reason to go with a GSR block over an LS when its getting new sleeves and rods/pistons.

92DAturboteg

I have a fully built non-vtec head that I'm trying to get rid of if you are interested.
Race p&p ferrea oversized valves, new guides, seals springs and retainers that has never been ran and would be cheaper than finding a vtec head, building it, converting ect. Overall if you where to do the same to a vtec head it would make more power, But check out the LS-T thread and see what kind of tourque these things make. Email me at jchafee@snet.net if your interested.