You can also download the Autronic software at http://www.autronic.com

 

this thread is getting funny. people are backing up the system they dropped all that cash on so they feel better about their purchase.

with so few people on here actually running autronic on their cars, i dont see how we can have an objective comparison. but hey, honda-tech has been so diluted with nonsense lately i guess it doesnt matter anymore.

 

I spent no $$$ on "my" AEM, it belongs to the formula team. I have liked it since it came out because of the features it offers (use basically any sensor you want).

-Dustin

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falconGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">this thread is getting funny. people are backing up the system they dropped all that cash on so they feel better about their purchase.

with so few people on here actually running autronic on their cars, i dont see how we can have an objective comparison. but hey, honda-tech has been so diluted with nonsense lately i guess it doesnt matter anymore.

</TD></TR></TABLE>I remember you and ART had the system back when I had it. What made you get rid of and what are you running now?

 

posting this IM...let me know if i am wrong about autronic.


(11:03 AM 10/14/2003) SiRkid: so you ditched the aem eh?
howcome?
what are you going with next?

(11:31 AM 10/14/2003) falconGSR: partially for money reasons. but really i just like playing with this stuff and learning about it. my car isnt hella fast and never will be. i got the greddy turbo and i just like tweaking it. it looks like i am going with something like hondata next, but i will be editing the roms myself with the help of the guys on the pgmfi.org forum.

(11:34 AM 10/14/2003) SiRkid: awesome.
a freind has hondata stg 4b and we always mess around.
cool little thing..a little bit of a pain burning the rom all the time but you get used to it.
im wonderin if i should ditch the aem? for autronic. lol.
i like the idea that if i ever ditch my car or get a new one. i could still use that standalone!

(12:25 PM 10/14/2003) falconGSR: i really dont want to knock autronic as i am sure its a great product, but the issue is that its got to be a nightmare to hook it all up since you have to wire the sensors yourself. art's been planning on using it i think and he's been researching it a long time... (waiting on an engine also i believe) but the aem has a HUGE advantage plugging into the stock harness.

(1:25 PM 10/14/2003) SiRkid: i was just reading that!
and i remember art saying it was a pain.
i do like the fact that you can switch cars though..
ill just keep the aem for now since its been working for me just fine.
no point in fixing something that aitn broke

 

Your right, installing a wire harness is a pain. I have a ton of wires going under my hood. As soon as I get time, i'm gonna filter out what I don't need on the stock harness!

 

Of course, you could always pay someone to build a harness for you................most stand alone companies offer a harness for different applications. This would prevent a new person from having to sort it all out yourself.......

I don't wanna knock any other products either, but the ones that work, just work, and the ones that don't...........well everyone knows about 'em.

 

it's not that hard to wire the autronic. i can do it in a couple hours. i perfer having an unterminated harness, that way i can cut it down and make it fit perfectly.

and i don't think necessarily that people are trying to justify the money they spent. ultimately, people buy what they can afford and what they like, but you also can't deny somethings are undoubtedly better.

 

HOW is the autronic better than the AEM? besides the fact that aem released it too early!!!!

 

it has years of proven track performance. the injector drivers are top notch. it has proven reliability in harsh environments. software is on point, it's a small program, runs on old laptops, and i've never had it crash on me. The software is also user friendly.

 

Ok, its not that hard to wire up. What I did was use a Harness much like the obd1-obd2 conversion harness. It will be a plug and play too. Originally I was going to wire it up so that that you wouldnt see any wires period because I think Wires look nasty under an engine bay. But I didnt do it because of time.

ART

 

SEFI8LOxCivic is right on about Autronic!
Except one thing their injector drivers are not only top notch, but i believe their the best period...

EFIGUY also made a great point, The Ecu's that work, just work, and the ones that don't everyone knows about them.

it's already been stated but i'll repeat Autronic won't sell a product unless it's completely tested. So you know that every feature will work as advertised...

There's been so many standalone's claiming to have certain features available to attract customers and then when you actually try to use them they don't work.
That's very annoying....

 

This thread makes me laugh a lot given the content here . I see a lot of good points being made though (thanks for the thorough responses EFIGUY ), but I have to say a few last words on behalf of the EMS.

I used to work at Horspowerfreaks, and during my time there we pushed the ems system really hard. We sold a bunch of them, heck the president of AEM even flew up to meet us. So needless to say I saw a WIDE variety of consumers buying this product. I think a portion of the ems' bad reputation comes from its target market. AEM tried to make a "plug and play" system for the masses. While this might sound appealing sales-wise, 99% of "the masses" have no right even thinking of using a standalone system on their car. Now obviously there are/were a few hardware related issues that I have seen (experienced tuners found this out quickly), and AEM is completely at fault for that. All electrical components should be very thoroughly tested prior to sale. This is good business. AEM f'd up and salvaged their rep by taking care of their customers - usually in the form of overnighting the unit from the customer (for repair) as well as next day return shipping (and in some cases an entirely new unit was sent out).

So this covers the units that were defective. Other than that, most other people I hear of/see having problems with their ems fall into that percentage of people that have no right buying a standalone. You would be surprised how people can cook an ecu. Or people talk about the software and how it doesn't work right on their computer, or sometimes people complain that they just couldn't get their car to idle/run/drive very well. Here are my responses to those situations:

1) I bought the ems right when it came out. I mean within a month or so. I plugged the ems in and it has not left my car once since. With proper tuning by an experienced user (in my case by myself) I have NEVER seen a car that couldn't idle, run, or drive flawlessly due to the ems. All of these tuning problems I've seen fall into the categories of a person having engine problems that no computer could solve, or the tuner was not well-versed in the ways of the ems, or simply the user didn't know enough about efi to troubleshoot effectively. Before parking my car for the current engine build, it ran and idled great, no quirks whatsoever, and no mechanical/electrical problems encountered with the unit, not even once.

2) I didn't own a laptop when I bought the ems, so I borrowed a POS 133mhz pentium 1 with 2gig hd/48mb ram and a floppy drive. Now people, I used this to tune the ems for an entire month without any hiccups! You can't find a more piece of **** laptop that that (it had a serial port and that's all I needed). Now I use a 650mhz p3 dell that is more than you will ever need for tuning a standalone. I have it in my car ALWAYS running a full digital dash (onscreen) that I designed. No problems whatsoever.

3) **** I went to get some dinner and now I can't remember what the heck I was about to talk about. It will come to me.... for now this is enough crap to read

So, take what you want from that - I'm not in the least bit trying to say that the ems is better than so-and-so's system. Autronic is a better deal than Motec, and quite frankly that is all I know about it. I have never met anyone using an Autronic system, but if I do, I would definately like to take a look at it and see the system in action. The Autronic very well may be better than the ems. I haven't proved/disproved this for myself, so I just wanted to say a bit in defense of the ems. Not directed at anyone in particular here or anywhere, I just get tired of people shitting on a system that has been nothing less than advertised for me and many others.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Arturbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Ok, its not that hard to wire up. What I did was use a Harness much like the obd1-obd2 conversion harness. It will be a plug and play too. Originally I was going to wire it up so that that you wouldnt see any wires period because I think Wires look nasty under an engine bay. But I didnt do it because of time.
ART
</TD></TR></TABLE>

dude, how long u been working on it?

dont call it plug it in until you've actually plugged it in and started playing with it! how do you know its going to work the 1st time?

JOE

 

i agree with hpfsi.. 80% of the people that have problems with the ems have problems that no computer would fix. sometimes the hard part is figuring out whats mechanical/wiring and whats computer related. we were having a problem with what felt like massivly retarded timing. changed coils and the entire ign system except for the msd 6a box.. turns out the box was busted and causing a slight missfire under boost. put a coil on plug setup (cbr 600f4i coils and a custom 4 chanel ignition driver) on it and now we have no missfire at all.. even at 35ish psi.

im not sure how the autotronic works, i have never used one but the thing i love about the ems is that i can tune using a "boost correct method" and once i tune the car for wot at any boost thats in the efficency of the turbo then its tuned for any boost level. i had the civic im working on tuned for 12psi. upped it to 18 and it ran perfect with just changes to the ign map needed. then the wastegate vac line blew off and hit 30+ psi through 3rd, 4th and 5th gear... checked the logs and the afr was dead on.

as for big injectors... are 880's at 60psi fuel pressure big enough for you. the car idles good and drives great.

my view as far as standalones go is to find someone you trust to tune and use what they use. a standalone is only as good as the tuner. if you are doing it yourself then aem ems is the best imo, no wiring involved, you dont have to worry about wiring problems.

 

you guys(jdogg and hp) nailed it on the head imo.

 

It really does come down to that...........any ECU has the capability to correctly operate an engine in the hands of a skilled tuner who understands that particular system.

Most problems are found in the wiring, or the tuning. My tuning philosophy has always been......if the factory was able to make an engine idle properly, then an aftermarket tuner should also be able to accomplish that. It really takes time, and an understanding of how the things work.

Gems was a good system before AEM mass marketed it, and it is still a good system now. I think Hp said it right when he said that they just missed the real market. These things are not toys, and all too many people treat them as such.

In the end, no one system has all the answers........price, features, reliability, tech support, marketing, software, etc........

It just comes down to what the guy using the system is capable of.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by falconGSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

dude, how long u been working on it?

dont call it plug it in until you've actually plugged it in and started playing with it! how do you know its going to work the 1st time?

JOE </TD></TR></TABLE>
Make that 60mile trip to Ft. Worth and I'll show you. Plus its been a while since we've gone and checked out the F16s at the Air Force base.

art

 

just to clear up the GEMS thing.. the aem ems is NOT just a rebadged GEMS box. aem designed it with the help of GEMS. you cant take a gems box and hook up aem software to it and vice versa. of course there will be some similaritys but gems boxes are custom made for the customer, they arent a mass production type deal like ems, motec, autotonic.. etc etc.

idle on a standalone can depend on teh injectors as well as a number of factors. the civic im doing now idles ok... not as good as i want but the delphi 880cc injectors just done respond properly at short pulsewidth. the last car i did with rc 770's idled awesome, like stock. these damn delphi injectors just wont idle right.

 

I just bought the AEM EMS system three weeks ago.

I took out my stock ECU ( 2 minutes )
Put in the AEM EMS (10 seconds)
Booted up my computer ( 1 minute )
Loaded software ( 3 minutes )
Connected to the EMS ( 10 seconds )
Went through the throttle and timing calibrations ( 5 minutes )
Uploaded the map for my car (1 minute )
Went for a drive ( yes the car started the 1st time )

So in less than 20 minutes I had replaced the stock ECU and was driving around starting to tune with my wideband.

In my experience the new V 1.03 works and works very well. No wiring, easy software to view and tune the engine.

I feel like it has been money well spent and if there were problems in the past I really dont care because it looks like they have been taken care of.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDogg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just to clear up the GEMS thing.. the aem ems is NOT just a rebadged GEMS box. aem designed it with the help of GEMS. you cant take a gems box and hook up aem software to it and vice versa. of course there will be some similaritys but gems boxes are custom made for the customer, they arent a mass production type deal like ems, motec, autotonic.. etc etc.

idle on a standalone can depend on teh injectors as well as a number of factors. the civic im doing now idles ok... not as good as i want but the delphi 880cc injectors just done respond properly at short pulsewidth. the last car i did with rc 770's idled awesome, like stock. these damn delphi injectors just wont idle right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

AEM bought the rights to use the GEMS boards, and then they designed their own adapter boards to interface with them and the factory wire harnes. They then adapted the software to be there own..........at its heart, it is still GEMS.

Getting different injectors to idle properly is definately a challenge. It is a challenge that some companies have met well with, and others have not.

In order to do it properly, each injector must be tested and essentially "Mapped" for its rise time, fall time, trigger sensitivity, and coil stregnth at various battery voltage levels.

When the Autronic software is told that it will be controlling a certain type of injector, say a Delphi 880, it then employs a specific injector firing strategy to handle those particular injectors. The Autronic software has an amazingly extensive library of injector types that have been mapped, and even allows a user defined function if someone has the equipment and ability to map their own injectors.

This explains why some companies produce a smoother idle and response quality than others when using different injectors.

AEM does a pretty fair job of battery voltage compensation for each specific injector, but their actual control strategy for some injectors is, frankly........ lacking.

Again, all engine management systems will operate an engine. Some just do the job nicer than others.

 

efi guy... i havent put in the battery compensation table for the 880cc injectors. there are only a couple people running them and aem didnt have the information avalible when i put the injectors in. hopefully when i get the batt comp stuff it will idle better.

 

It should fix the problem.........

Like I said, it was a good system before, and its still a good system now.........you just gotta have ALL the pieces to the puzzle in order for it to work perfectly!

 

Fyi if AEM doesn't have your injectors set up in the ems' software already you can send them in for mapping similar to what EFIGUY described. Then they'll add it to the list of 40-something types of injectors they have tested so far.

 

All I can say is that I haven't had ANY trouble with my EMS system whatsoever. I can't compare the AEM EMS to any other management systems personally, but I will tell you that I love my setup. It is tuned perfectly, by Sean McElderry of Torquefreaks, it drives like stock. The new 1.03 version is much simpler, and the firmware just keeps getting more and more user friendly with each new version. The adjustability for boost control is amazing and the list of options goes on and on. Overall I am VERY happy, it is confusing... at least at first, but if you are willing to invest the time,... as you NEED to be when going standalone then it is well worth it. I think AEM has done away with many of the bugs in earlier versions. to AEM!