Apex PowerFC
Re: (BseriesHybrid)
I've used this system for 3 Turbo hondas, and believe that it is absolutely wonderful. Please PM me for other main questions.
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=939544
https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=2
https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=939544
https://honda-tech.com/zero...age=2
Re: (TheShodan)
I have a couple points that may need to be made mention when it comes to the POWER FC. Sometimes I feel that it is necessary to bring these up mainly because of the fact that threads like this tend to be skewed because of people who don't look at the quality and use of the product, and instead look at simply at price, and whether or not you have the time, patience, and ability to compromise some amenities for lower cost. Comments are always welcome, but I hope people here can be mature, stay to the point at hand, and don't say "well you could save money if you do XXXXX and do it yourself." That is not the point of this thread about who can be the biggest cheapskate and lose some drivability just because it is less expensive. This person asked about the System itself, not how much it costs
Power FC is not a DIY system... Nor was it ever meant to be
Many people have a tendency to diss Power FC because they find that there is "no support" available for the system like Uberdata or Chrome or other systems in which all the information is left up the person's ability to tune the car and hope that the name doesn't get trashed in case something goes wrong. Because they have strict quality control, though you can purchase it from many shops and distributors, unless they are a POWER EXCEL dealer, that has purchased, used, tested, and tuned a ton of cars, they cannot offer technical advise or support. There are others that can tune the system with ultimate results, but don't think for one minute that this is one of those systems that you can sit in the car and tune like an S-AFC. This system is nowhere near an AFC of any kind. It is a full-standalone system, not a hack, piggyback or EPROM ECU. You must get the one made for the Type R or B16B Civic R.
The Power FC is not a Hack, AFC, or Piggyback system
For the Power FC, it is definately a very capable system with over 512mb of memory in its standalone ECU available for changes and measurements compared to the Honda ECU which can only hold about half that. what happens is that the ECU already has the standard cold and warm startups built into the system and can hold over 2 times the capacity. About the same amount as an AEM EMS. The FC commander MUST be used with the system, even if you use "Datalogit" to help integrate. you can't cheat your way around the system, nor use substitutes.
The Power FC when it comes to Honda, uses the stock map sensor for off boost use, and with the boost kit comes with the adjoining cable, Denso 3 bar map sensor (which is the same as the Greddy E-manage Pressure sensor) so that transition is much smoother (This is especially important when using initial tip-in enrichment when in partial throttle tuning for road courses) than some of the other systems. You cannot use a GM 3 bar map with this system, and rewire it for use with the FC. The resolution of the FC is 36 X 36, which is plenty for tuning the honda for all it needs to allow for a stock feel in off-boost, and a natural power setting when on-boost. The millisecond time delay set makes setting large injectors VERY easy.
Datalogit should be used for Honda Boost application
Tuning the Honda on the Power FC is very efficient and easy if you have the right tools. The FC commander, though nice, must use the Datalogit from New Zealand for Boost. Otherwise it will take you about 10 hours to tune it. This does cost extra, but worth it. This system also detects Knock, water temp, boost, vtec, rpm points etc, all without needing more guages, and is all in the commander screen.
When changes need to be changed, like having the cold start initial program used, or the 02 sensor feedback engaged, there's no need to pop the ecu, get the pocket programmer, reburn a chip, and put it all back together with a bunch of cables. Simply change it in the commander, (without using a laptop) make the changes and be on your way. Sometimes its easier to pay a little more for convience. IF have the time to do all that yourself, just to drive... to me it seems as though you have nothing better to do. With this system, it is tune, set, get on with your life.
Let me know if you have any questions..
Power FC is not a DIY system... Nor was it ever meant to be
Many people have a tendency to diss Power FC because they find that there is "no support" available for the system like Uberdata or Chrome or other systems in which all the information is left up the person's ability to tune the car and hope that the name doesn't get trashed in case something goes wrong. Because they have strict quality control, though you can purchase it from many shops and distributors, unless they are a POWER EXCEL dealer, that has purchased, used, tested, and tuned a ton of cars, they cannot offer technical advise or support. There are others that can tune the system with ultimate results, but don't think for one minute that this is one of those systems that you can sit in the car and tune like an S-AFC. This system is nowhere near an AFC of any kind. It is a full-standalone system, not a hack, piggyback or EPROM ECU. You must get the one made for the Type R or B16B Civic R.
The Power FC is not a Hack, AFC, or Piggyback system
For the Power FC, it is definately a very capable system with over 512mb of memory in its standalone ECU available for changes and measurements compared to the Honda ECU which can only hold about half that. what happens is that the ECU already has the standard cold and warm startups built into the system and can hold over 2 times the capacity. About the same amount as an AEM EMS. The FC commander MUST be used with the system, even if you use "Datalogit" to help integrate. you can't cheat your way around the system, nor use substitutes.
The Power FC when it comes to Honda, uses the stock map sensor for off boost use, and with the boost kit comes with the adjoining cable, Denso 3 bar map sensor (which is the same as the Greddy E-manage Pressure sensor) so that transition is much smoother (This is especially important when using initial tip-in enrichment when in partial throttle tuning for road courses) than some of the other systems. You cannot use a GM 3 bar map with this system, and rewire it for use with the FC. The resolution of the FC is 36 X 36, which is plenty for tuning the honda for all it needs to allow for a stock feel in off-boost, and a natural power setting when on-boost. The millisecond time delay set makes setting large injectors VERY easy.
Datalogit should be used for Honda Boost application
Tuning the Honda on the Power FC is very efficient and easy if you have the right tools. The FC commander, though nice, must use the Datalogit from New Zealand for Boost. Otherwise it will take you about 10 hours to tune it. This does cost extra, but worth it. This system also detects Knock, water temp, boost, vtec, rpm points etc, all without needing more guages, and is all in the commander screen.
When changes need to be changed, like having the cold start initial program used, or the 02 sensor feedback engaged, there's no need to pop the ecu, get the pocket programmer, reburn a chip, and put it all back together with a bunch of cables. Simply change it in the commander, (without using a laptop) make the changes and be on your way. Sometimes its easier to pay a little more for convience. IF have the time to do all that yourself, just to drive... to me it seems as though you have nothing better to do. With this system, it is tune, set, get on with your life.
Let me know if you have any questions..
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Re: (TheShodan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Datalogit should be used for Honda Boost application
Tuning the Honda on the Power FC is very efficient and easy if you have the right tools. The FC commander, though nice, must use the Datalogit from New Zealand for Boost. Otherwise it will take you about 10 hours to tune it. This does cost extra, but worth it. This system also detects Knock, water temp, boost, vtec, rpm points etc, all without needing more guages, and is all in the commander screen.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't want to post any preview but the software is almost ready to be released, so i post some pictures:
The Software still needs some work but i think i can release a preview soon, latest at the end of the month.
The Software will be a FREE replacement for the FC Edit software and the box will cost way less than the $363 for the Datalogit. A direct connection with a serial cable, Mini DIN5 plug and 2 resistors should be also possible, but i haven't tried it yet.
I try to make the software as user friendly as possible, with Wizards and Auto-Tuning.
If you would like to see any features in the release, feel free to PM me or post it here.
Datalogit should be used for Honda Boost application
Tuning the Honda on the Power FC is very efficient and easy if you have the right tools. The FC commander, though nice, must use the Datalogit from New Zealand for Boost. Otherwise it will take you about 10 hours to tune it. This does cost extra, but worth it. This system also detects Knock, water temp, boost, vtec, rpm points etc, all without needing more guages, and is all in the commander screen.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I didn't want to post any preview but the software is almost ready to be released, so i post some pictures:
The Software still needs some work but i think i can release a preview soon, latest at the end of the month.
The Software will be a FREE replacement for the FC Edit software and the box will cost way less than the $363 for the Datalogit. A direct connection with a serial cable, Mini DIN5 plug and 2 resistors should be also possible, but i haven't tried it yet.
I try to make the software as user friendly as possible, with Wizards and Auto-Tuning.
If you would like to see any features in the release, feel free to PM me or post it here.
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Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,790
Likes: 1
From: NC, USA
Re: Apex PowerFC (BseriesHybrid)
Has anyone used this system? For Turbo setups over 20psi of boost, and also how does it compare to Hondata, Chrome, Uberdata and other standalones?
FC loggit or Power Excel is the ticket for a correct/faster tune
FC loggit or Power Excel is the ticket for a correct/faster tune
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Re: Apex PowerFC (B18CXr)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18CXr »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">FC loggit or Power Excel is the ticket for a correct/faster tune</TD></TR></TABLE>
FC Datalogit has some bugs, some values are misinterpreted.
FC Datalogit has some bugs, some values are misinterpreted.
Re: Apex PowerFC (Andre)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andre »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
FC Datalogit has some bugs, some values are misinterpreted.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Very true, but with a little patience they can be worked out. Glad to see someone working on some additional integration. Most FC Datalogits take about 4 months to arrive. Please let us know about the pilot and beta versions.
FC Datalogit has some bugs, some values are misinterpreted.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Very true, but with a little patience they can be worked out. Glad to see someone working on some additional integration. Most FC Datalogits take about 4 months to arrive. Please let us know about the pilot and beta versions.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Re: Apex PowerFC (TheShodan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Very true, but with a little patience they can be worked out. Glad to see someone working on some additional integration. Most FC Datalogits take about 4 months to arrive. Please let us know about the pilot and beta versions.</TD></TR></TABLE>
FC Datalogit displays TPS%, but that's wrong, the values are TPS voltage.
100% = 5V / 0% = 0V, that's wrong for a Honda.
Some breakpoints are displayed wrong, the warning settings are not displayed properly, some values are displayed in a raw format.
There are no units on most settings etc. In other words there is a lot room for improvements.
I don't want to knock down FC Datalogit, but for $363 i had expected a little bit more.
Also the Datalogit Box seems to crash sometimes (Interface not responding).
The only reason why i'm writing my own software is because i don't like FC Edit. My goal is not to sell a box, i will release the software for free and everyone can make his own connection cable.
FC Edit checks first if a Datalogit Box is available, so it can never be used without one. It also uses different communication settings betweens the PC and Box than between the box and the Power FC.
Very true, but with a little patience they can be worked out. Glad to see someone working on some additional integration. Most FC Datalogits take about 4 months to arrive. Please let us know about the pilot and beta versions.</TD></TR></TABLE>
FC Datalogit displays TPS%, but that's wrong, the values are TPS voltage.
100% = 5V / 0% = 0V, that's wrong for a Honda.
Some breakpoints are displayed wrong, the warning settings are not displayed properly, some values are displayed in a raw format.
There are no units on most settings etc. In other words there is a lot room for improvements.
I don't want to knock down FC Datalogit, but for $363 i had expected a little bit more.
Also the Datalogit Box seems to crash sometimes (Interface not responding).
The only reason why i'm writing my own software is because i don't like FC Edit. My goal is not to sell a box, i will release the software for free and everyone can make his own connection cable.
FC Edit checks first if a Datalogit Box is available, so it can never be used without one. It also uses different communication settings betweens the PC and Box than between the box and the Power FC.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Re: (TheShodan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">For the Power FC, it is definately a very capable system with over 512mb of memory in its standalone ECU available for changes and measurements compared to the Honda ECU which can only hold about half that.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
512mb? The PFC uses the STK12C68 NVRAM from Simtek with 64K (8K*8) memory. When the ignition is switched on the data will be loaded from the integrated EPROM into the RAM and when the igniton is switched off the data will be written back to the EPROM through a 100mF capacitor.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You cannot use a GM 3 bar map with this system, and rewire it for use with the FC.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sure you can, many people are using the GM MAP sensor with the Power FC, you just need to enter the correct offset (0) and tendency (around 40,000).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The resolution of the FC is 36 X 36, which is plenty for tuning the honda for all it needs to allow for a stock feel in off-boost, and a natural power setting when on-boost. The millisecond time delay set makes setting large injectors VERY easy.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
There is not one map with a 36x36 resolution, all base and corrections maps are 20x20 which are plenty of breakpoints.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
512mb? The PFC uses the STK12C68 NVRAM from Simtek with 64K (8K*8) memory. When the ignition is switched on the data will be loaded from the integrated EPROM into the RAM and when the igniton is switched off the data will be written back to the EPROM through a 100mF capacitor.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You cannot use a GM 3 bar map with this system, and rewire it for use with the FC.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sure you can, many people are using the GM MAP sensor with the Power FC, you just need to enter the correct offset (0) and tendency (around 40,000).
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The resolution of the FC is 36 X 36, which is plenty for tuning the honda for all it needs to allow for a stock feel in off-boost, and a natural power setting when on-boost. The millisecond time delay set makes setting large injectors VERY easy.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
There is not one map with a 36x36 resolution, all base and corrections maps are 20x20 which are plenty of breakpoints.
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 827
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Tx, USA
Re: Apex PowerFC (Andre)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Andre »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The only reason why i'm writing my own software is because i don't like FC Edit. My goal is not to sell a box, i will release the software for free and everyone can make his own connection cable.
FC Edit checks first if a Datalogit Box is available, so it can never be used without one. It also uses different communication settings betweens the PC and Box than between the box and the Power FC.
</TD></TR></TABLE> let us know when you release your edit
i'll be gladly to donate 
The only reason why i'm writing my own software is because i don't like FC Edit. My goal is not to sell a box, i will release the software for free and everyone can make his own connection cable.
FC Edit checks first if a Datalogit Box is available, so it can never be used without one. It also uses different communication settings betweens the PC and Box than between the box and the Power FC.
</TD></TR></TABLE> let us know when you release your edit
i'll be gladly to donate
Junior Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 827
Likes: 0
From: Houston, Tx, USA
Re: Apex PowerFC (TheShodan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I too, would be interested, and would donate a good sum for the cause.</TD></TR></TABLE>
thats 2 count for donations
by far IMO that this is the best thread about the powerFC...
thats 2 count for donations
by far IMO that this is the best thread about the powerFC...
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 484
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From: Germany
Re: Apex PowerFC (TURBO4drTypeR)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TURBO4drTypeR »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> let us know when you release your edit </TD></TR></TABLE>
I'll work tomorrow and sunday on the software. If someone would like to help me with the icons, splash screen or manual please PM me.
I also need a short description for all settings (see ignition dwell).
I'll work tomorrow and sunday on the software. If someone would like to help me with the icons, splash screen or manual please PM me.
I also need a short description for all settings (see ignition dwell).
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: Kirkland, Wa, USA
Re: (TheShodan)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When changes need to be changed, like having the cold start initial program used, or the 02 sensor feedback engaged, there's no need to pop the ecu, get the pocket programmer, reburn a chip, and put it all back together with a bunch of cables.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Sorry to hijak, but are you talking about a wideband sensor or one of the factory O2 sensors?
I'm looking at getting a high-flow cat before tuning on the Power FC, and I'm curious whether I should keep my secondary O2 sensor in the cat (I've got a 99Si). What's the best way to go?
THanks
Sorry to hijak, but are you talking about a wideband sensor or one of the factory O2 sensors?
I'm looking at getting a high-flow cat before tuning on the Power FC, and I'm curious whether I should keep my secondary O2 sensor in the cat (I've got a 99Si). What's the best way to go?
THanks