Kid-jdm-teggy

I have a catch can and i want to vent the crankcase pressure and after a lot of reading, it has been really confusing. So i made a a drawing of how i interpret the setup to be and i need you guys tips and advice to see if it will work. The pcv black box, i have a hose going from the block to one port of the black box, then the other port will have a filter on it. Then the valve cover will have two hose running to the catch can. Will this work or should i change some things?

The black box in the pic with the blue fitting, i plan on replacing that fitting with a filter.
Car is going to be boosted and the goal is 400whp

Kid-jdm-teggy

Dallasb84

I don't think that is going to work well. I think what you have there will fill the charcoal canister with oil.

Usually you want to remove the evap canister and install two plugs in the block that are -10 an fittings.... Run those to the lowest position of a breather box. Then two -10 lines to the valve cover. Then the box will recirculate.

What canister are you using?

Also the evap canister is generally the location that is used for drain back.

Kid-jdm-teggy

I dont want the oil to drain back because the car wont be driven daily so people say condensation might get into the oil. Instead of putting a filter on the charcoal box, should i run a line from that port to one of the port on the catchcan? I plan on making my own catchcan

Dallasb84

I guess you could go that route. What makes you think it doesn't get condensation anyways? Catch can or not.

Kid-jdm-teggy

Idk i cant find the post with people debating about the issue and another reason why i dont want to reroute it to the intake manifold is because it will lower the octane of my fuel mixture. Anyone else want to chime in?

mrlegoman

I've read so many post on catch cans it's makes my head hurt. I have a Time Trial/time Attack track car running 8-12psi. The route I'm currently going to go to is:
1. Remove the black box and plug the hole.
2. Route two -10 lines from the valve cover to a catch can.
3. Manually drain can after sessions if needed.

Is this the "right" way to go? I don't know. But it's a straight forward setup.

LTCxD2B

Most people with aggressive setups do block plugs to a catch can and/or the valve cover ports to a catch can... But because the car will be under lots of left and right and not just forward thrust like drag racing the can will fill faster ...

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

That's just the breather box. Charcoal canister is an entirely different piece which shouldn't even be in the car when using a catch can.

mechanix619

I ran two lines from valve cover to vented can and removed PCV black box. Car made 400WHP. Keep it simple.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Typically a catch can fills up with blow by, oil contaminants, and water. Not good things to be draining back into the crankcase. Granted there will always be some condensation in the crankcase and engineoil when the car sits, as well as blow by and other contaminants, but when the engine oil reaches proper operating temperature it will evaporate off the water content and burn off some of the contaminants but you don't want to be adding any extra back into the crankcase.

Vent to atmosphere and don't drain back.

For 400hp you can either vent the valve cover or the block but you don't need to do both. Venting from the block is easier because you don't have to do any welding like the valve cover. B&R Fittings makes a nice b series block fitting kit that's very affordable. You can either run a single an10 fitting in the breather box port or use an10 fittings in place of the block plugs and their billet breather box plug or a freeze plug.

Block plug fittings

B-Series Block Port Fittings

And

Breather box plug

B & R Block Plug

Or

Breather box fitting

-10 B-Series Block Plug Adapter

blackeg

my catch can gets a ton of water from condensation in it, especially now that its brick cold outside. these guys have it right. vent to atmosphere, 2 ports off the valvecover to a can. drain it as needed and discard

Kid-jdm-teggy

Ok so from what i am understanding is either vent the pressure from the valve cover or the charcoal box. If i were to vent from the box, can i use both ports from the box to the can or leave the rubber line from the picture above how it is and put the other port to the can?

Also, i thought it was bad to seal up the bottom crankcase completely and vent thru the valve cover since a lot of pressure is built up in the crank case? Read it somewhere so dont quote me

Dallasb84

Sorry guys but you want drain back. Your engine is a heat pump and can generated towards 6-10 oz of water in one start up cycle depending on weather. It's perfectly normal. As far as blow by particles or whatever that all get filtered from by your oil filter.

Why cheap *** catch cans suck.... Especially the big boxes that have steel wool is.... If you let that junk sit the oil will become jelly. Now think about it. 5 quarts with let's just say 4oz of water .... Absolutely no big deal what so ever. Now 4oz of water and a ounce of oil blow by... Petroleum jelly crap you don't want.

What you do want is a box with enough volume and temperature differential that will both remove the volitiles, burned oil vapor and unburned gasoline. Also, the box should be big enough to allow the temperature differential between the motor and the box to quickly wick the water from the initial start up air inside the motor as well as the water that condensed from the prior shut down and last start up. It can be a lot of water but nothing that's going to damage your motor. At certain temp the water starts going.....

Why you want drain back! On a track car that has worn in you will circulate oil from both the valve cover lines and the drain back lines as the car is either accelerating, turning and breaking. The circulation of the oil is what allows the volatiles out that induce knock and hurt performance. You can run a closed breather box and I know plenty of people that do but... It's not ideal for separating the water quickly.

My boxes are open have a baffle that separate 3 filter medias. The water gets trapped in the filter media and stays put until it dries out as well as the little particulates that evaporate with the water....

The best way is to pump the **** out your exhaust, then breather box, then a closed system evap canister assisted Pcv system.

The cheapo mishimoto ebay things collect a little bit of **** but don't work well if do anything at all. When your motor starts getting some time on it, it will start blowing more **** past the rings.

That's all I gotta say about it.

Dallasb84

Yes you can vent from the charcoal evap canister to a filter box....

Dallasb84

You should be okay with what you are tryin to do for a little while. If you are blowing smoke from blow by later on you'll need to upgrade to a system like the black works box or a exhaust pump type system. I make carbon breather box kits as well but they are more suited for a track car and are pricey like the blackworks full setups. My boxes work excellent.

Dallasb84

I can't tell from the picture but it looks like that fitting may be a -6 or -8. I would suggest a -10.

DC4KiD

iTrader: (4)

You do know that the charcoal evap canister is for holding fuel vapors, right...?

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

So all of the cars reliably running an atmospheric catch can should have broken by now is what you're saying?

If the line diameter and fittings are the right diameter no oil will be sucked up. Thevalve covers allgetvented behind the baffles which means no oil ingestion. All of the 10an block fittings that have lines sloping upwards never draw oil unless you're driving up an absurd hill all the time. there's actually very little drain back from the head, not as much as you'd think anyways.

Dallasb84

No that's not what I'm sayin. But most of the cheapo canisters really don't do **** in terms of the stock unit vs cheapo after market.

I disagree with the last part.

Oil will travel uphill even from the block lines. I have seen it first hand on multiple setups. I'm not talking about 9-12 second hit vehicles either. I'm talking about cars that are daily driven and ran regularly at full day TT and drip events. Built motors than have put on tons of track hours an are wore in well. Sure the atmospheric boxes work. He'll my setup is an atmospheric box. But I do think the best solution for a breather box (not catch can) is allowing drain back, as much gravity as you can, an open chamber, baffle system in the box , abilty to open the box and clean it out when you can, and a filter system.


I have seen plenty of high mileage two -10 an boxes from the valve cover work just fine. But looking down into them at what collects in when drain back is not used is kinda gross. Yes they work just fine but I think and know it can be done better. ****.... I see all the time people stuffing steel wool in the big ol breather boxes to control slosh and give surface area to help water evaporation...... I think it's nasty that's all.

Now....... The cheapo catch canisters you can get from ebay that are nothing more than a half *** oil water separator...... You might as well buy a real oil water separator! Ha ha ha they are a joke when a vehicle is really tested in cornering, severe crankcase pressure, and sustained rpm. I hope my thoughts are clear here. I'm not saying open atmospheres boxes will fail.... Just the cheapo canisters. They suck *****.

My advice to the op is to go ahead and try his idea out and if he sees smoke from blow by to upgrade to block plug fittings for drain back and vent the valve cover to a breather box. Easy mod and simple. The other stuff I talked about is fine tuning out the problems with such a system that I have ran into on the track. That's all. The catch can argument turns to semantics at some point and I am trying to avoid that. Just giving my personal testimony to the issues I have addressed with crankcase pressure.

Dallasb84

Yes it collects the volitiles that hurt power. How well the stock one works under boost and abuse? Not good at all. Cut one open and see for yourself what collects in there. Big ol black nasty booger trap.

diatibe24

I am not running quite as high HP as your plans are (305whp) but I just did this and it seems to be working out fine.

https://honda-tech.com/forced-induct...7-b18-1490117/

AZ_CIVIC

iTrader: (1)

Here is the Catch Can Kit that I am running, it may give you an idea on how you can work your setup.

I am going a step above that now and welding an elbow on my oil pan with a big old -16 line going from the oil pan to a -16 that will be welded to my Locash Catch Can. I have reached the power limits to where I need to step it up but check the link out it may help.

Locash Racing Race Series Catch Can - $199.00 : Locash Racing, LLC!, Honda Performance Parts, Dynapack Dyno Tuning, and FREE CLOWNS!

LightningTeg

I run 2 -12an from the VC front and back and I get about a qt of oil pulled during any given night of racing. This is from the inertia of the car though. On the dyno I barely get anything.

When I switched to E85, the fuel cleaned all the gobledeegoo from the inside of the can so its usually clean enough to see the metal on the bottom lol

SiRCiviC94

My 2 cents I left the black box as it was with a new pcv.. It prob does nothing under boost. 2 -10 ports to catch can off the valve
Cover vent plenty and no oil build up cause it's on the front cover which is covered to not let oil get in.

I could blow an engine if I wanted to before the valve cover vents now I can't if I tried.

Block ports etc etc is for after 500whp I'd say