intekragsr

Ok, this is my third motor install in the last 6 months. I finally got it back from GEM (warranty work), and the motor is still bad!

First time, the engine was assembled teribly. Not golden eagles fault. Another builder. So Golden eagle rebuilds it. Took them 1 month. I have crower rods, 84mm sleeves, and Arias 9.2:1 pistons.

NOW, I drop the motor back in at Dynospotracing.com. I do all the breakin procedures golden eagle gave to me by the book. Stock ecu, no boost. I currently have 400 miles on the motor.

THE LEAKDOWN TEST :

1- 8%
2-40%
3-40%
4-30%
(leakage through crank case)

How in the heck could this happen? Robert at the front desk at GEM said that my motor is normal and needs the full 1000 mile break-in. NO WAY! THATS NOT NORMAL. I want to speak to Ted or Vince, but they have not returned any of the multiple messages.


Does anyone have any input? I feel like I have to vent. Ive gone through too many motors and months of downtime.

Mr. Softee

that is a shitload of leakage

laughinxxx

Go break it in for the full 1k and call them back. You've got time. I'm not saying this to ignore your problem, but if you reach 1k and have the same problem then they have no excuses. Good luck man. I hate incompetence.

IloveNewt

Where u the one who said that thier GEM sleeves dropped over to me on PM? My history erases after 7 days.

Mr. Softee

rofl its not going to change @ 1k miles... there is no way.

intekragsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MordecaiPSI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Where u the one who said that thier GEM sleeves dropped over to me on PM? My history erases after 7 days. </TD></TR></TABLE>

No my darton sleeves dropped. That was my first motor. My second motor was the golden eagle motor, and third motor was another golden eagle motor.

Andrea

The leakdown test either is telling you that the rings are not seated, or you have some leakage from the valves. Rings seat within 50-100 miles at most. I have seen low compression numbers/bad leakdown tests on initial break-in of engines but this is within the 50 mile "seating" period. I would run it some more, but beware if the rings are not seating you run the risk of wearing the cylinder walls, ruining the rings (which most likely already are ruined) and possibly scarring the piston skirts if the rings are left too long in a non-seating pattern.

laughinxxx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94goldjungsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rofl its not going to change @ 1k miles... there is no way.</TD></TR></TABLE>
True, but if GE doesn't believe that...
You get the point.

intekragsr

How long is too long to run like this?

Andrea

Depends on the tolerances the rings were set-up with. If they are on the sloppy side of the clearances, the rings will have scarred the cylinder walls already. The only true way to know what is happening is to tear down the engine and do inspection. Speculation with compression testing and leakdown testing gives you a hint at what the problem is, teardown and inspection is the only true way to know.

earl

A brand new engine has a better leakdown than what you have now. Something is going wrong and if you keep driving it, it will get worse. Driving it with unbalanced power in the cylinders is hard on the bearings and crank. Look to poorly honed cylinders, broken rings on the engine assembly or mis-shaped pistons if you hear air coming from the pan on your leakdown.

MAX_CFM

that much leakdown Id check the valve job
Id say if ya had a local shop do it the valves arent seating.
Not many people can do a good vj on a honda head.
The 5.5 mm stems and the really hard valves eats makes it
a challenge. I fix about one head a month from other shops
trying to use a steel pilot and a stone to cut the seats...

intekragsr

Hmmm i dont think it can be the valves. We hear no air out of the exhaust. Its mainly the crank case.

Blown90hatcH

Do you hear any air out of the TB?

MAX_CFM

well If non is commin out then i guess thats all it could be
just never seen 40% thats a **** load maybe ya got some cracks in yur piston
Or ya Micro welded the top ring If ya ran it lean on break in that can happen

Mr. Softee

im guesing the piston/wall clearances are poop or they tapered the block

turbo*s2k

Wow, this worries me. I just got my block back from GE. It took them 4 months to do the work. I'm going to be putting it together in the next week or so I hope everything is ok.

BodyKits NW

Just like Earl state you should not have that much leakdown. Even with the rings not fully seated. Whoever is saying that is making a excuse for bad work. Those rings are not going to be any different 500 miles. What is going to be different 500 miles from now is the life of your engine. Either the rings were not installed properly or there is something wrong with the cylinders. You should take the head off and inspect what is going on before it gets much worse. I know it's a pain, but ya gotta do it. My engine which I only had 20 miles on and put it on the dyno has a leakdown of less than 3 percent. After 20 miles it was pulling 9500rpm dyno pulls no problem!

turbo*s2k

You mentioned some waranty work.. What was that all about? I'm curious as too you said someone assembled it terribly, and it looks like they still atempted to fix it or did... Could that be the problem? Perhaps it was damaged previously. Does that make sense???

VaporTrail

positive it's the rings? I've seen more bad valve jobs than bad hone jobs. You need a serdi bit to do them right on a honda head. Also, did you use Bar's Stop Leak with the coolant? What were the start up procedures taken when the motor was FIRST started? Lastly, did you try adding oil to the cylinders to see if it raises compression/leak down numbers?

intekragsr

Im pretty certain its the rings. I poured half a capful of oil in each cylinder and did the compression test. This bumped up the numbers till the oil burned away.

The startup procedures was just idle it momentarily, and drove it a few miles to make sure the motor was running. I then picked up the car, did some city driving all 3000 rpm and under. When I went on the freeway, 3500 was the max (short gears) and varied rpm the whole way. I trust the shop since they build tube chassis race cars and compete in many events, so they should know what they are doing.

I did not run bars leak since it was not on GEM's procedure sheet, even though I have a bottle sitting in the garage.

intekragsr

I dont think its from the head. The leakdown had 0 noise coming from the exhaust or throttle body.

intekragsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94goldjungsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">im guesing the piston/wall clearances are poop or they tapered the block</TD></TR></TABLE>

What is tapering block? Is this common practice?

Charlie Moua

iTrader: (3)

damn GEM seems to be doing some wrong. This sucks. I mean when I heard of the 1st and 2nd h-tech member who as having issuse I was like..."ok must be some human error and they'll correct it". This is like the 5th-6th one I have heard.

I wonder if other people outside of honda-tech at clubsi, honda-acura.net ect have same problems. Screw that I'm having RSmachines do my block or else benson.

tony1

I agree with vapor, it doesn't sound like rings. If a ring was broken on assembly then i could see a problem, but not on 3 cylinders. I'd double check everything on the head. Make sure the valves lash isn't too tight, that could do it too. If the lash is good, then you're gonna have to pull the head. If everything looks peachy with the cylinder walls then take your head to a good machine shop and have them check it out.